Cancer, Recovery, and Us with Pete and Tasha

Yeah, I'm in Seattle. You're in Boulder. You said you grew up in Washington. Are you? What's your story?

Yeah, I grew up in Spokane, which is in the eastern side, and made a lot of trips growing up to the Seattle area because I was playing a competitive soccer match. And then I went to school at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma. So very cool. Your friends who went to University of Washington so spent a lot of time there over.

The years. Yeah. You dub won the national championship in soccer this year, so. Oh, yeah. Wow. I don't think they were seated, too. I think they were unseeded and they just peaked at the right time. Made their way through the tournament and, so I don't know. But that's.

Yeah, we grow. We both grew up playing soccer like pretty competitively.

So that's my sport too. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah I, I have a it's not quite a sob story, but I was, I was playing in high school. I was being recruited to play in college. I, I got injured right before my senior season and decided that there was no way I was going to give up my senior season. There were ten of us that were seniors that were played on the same, that had come up together, together. So we were we were going to make a run. Right. And that wasn't there was no way I was sitting out. So of course I got worse. My mike, I didn't, I didn't I basically abandoned my college soccer career on behalf of one season with my high school, but I wouldn't trade it.

I loved it, and I'm grateful I got into coaching right away. So I, I coached for a while and kind of made my way up the ranks until I got burnt out. And then my favorite soccer story, though, is that I got to coach my daughter from kindergarten to about fourth grade, and it was the best. It was absolutely best. So, everything I knew or loved about the sport, I got to give away to this kid and a bunch of her friends. So that was that's my, that's my soccer story for the moment, anyway.

Oh. That's cool. My dad was also a coach, and I got to play on the male team that he coached for, like. Yeah. And it was. Yeah, that that element was pretty cool.

Well, sure. I mean, it's a way to get better in a hurry because you're, you're have to play twice as hard and. Yeah, I mean right I would imagine so like.

Yeah. Yeah the competition was stiff you know for sure. Right on. Yeah.

How did you get to Boulder?

I came to Boulder in 2007, and I really, I was just kind of. I grew up in the East Coast, in Charleston.

Where'd you grow up? I love it.

Yeah.

Where'd you grow up?

Charleston, South Carolina.

Right. Okay. I'm from Roanoke, Virginia. Oh, okay.

Yeah. A little bit more. A little bit more. Norfolk.

Well, and so when I was getting recruited. Sorry, I got recruited to play at Emory. So that's that's in Atlanta there. And then Ellen and at one other school, I can't remember what it was, but I was done by the time actual like offer season came around, I was out. I ended up going to college at William and Mary, and I wasn't good enough to play it when we married, for sure. Even at my peak, I would not have been a that kind of player. They were top ten in the nation at the time, and but it was a fun time to be there too. But I love talking to people from the East Coast, people in the podcast. So get mad at me because I every time somebody says I'm from the East Coast, I'm like, where, where are you from?

And what do you do? And what did you and you know this person and did you ever meet, had you ever go here? And because you come out here and everything so far apart, like, you know, if you're like a, like a, like a, like a Philadelphia Eagles fan, you can drive two hours and see them play ten games. You know, like you can drive to New York, you can drive to DC, you can drive to, you know, whatever, you know here your Seahawk fan and you want to drive to see them play an away game. You got to drive to San Francisco. And I mean, it's just.

It's totally.

Or Denver's. I mean it's like it's insane how far apart everything is anyway.

Yeah.

Sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Portland doesn't really have big teams. Do they have any.

Well they they you know the NBA and like the soccer side they do they do I think the Portland Thorns anyway the women. And then what is the men's team called because we have the Seattle Reign. Oh, the the timber, the Portland timber. So that's a big rivalry. Vancouver has teams, Seattle has teams in Portland has teams. And they're all in this like Cascadia rivalry kind of situation.

I do like the names of the sports teams on the West.

Coast, right? Right.

It's like the word that describes the city the best, right?

Yeah.

Timber. Puget Sound, our mascot was the loggers, so.

Oh. Right on. Sure.

Yeah.

My theory on mascots is it shouldn't. You should have a mascot that doesn't make anybody go. Wait, wait, what is that? Because Seattle just got a women's hockey team, and the hockey team is called the torrent.

Yeah, it does that. It does. Right. You just said.

What I don't I don't even know. I'm not sure what it is and maybe has something to do with the whether or.

Not is a big is a.

Big ice floe or something.

That's what. There you go.

Yeah. A torrent like windows flooding.

Yeah, yeah.

That's really make you think, though.

You're like, your vocabulary is too broad. You need to dumb it down a little bit. Just call it the floods or something.

Or just a little too clever. Right? Like. Okay, so you were telling me, Tasha, that how you got to Boulder? I'm interested in how the two of you end up together and in Boulder. So tell me your story.

Yeah. Yeah, I came to Boulder. Yeah. 2007. I really, you know, I mean, really, what brought me out here was needing to have, like, time and space, like, oh, become my own person. You know, growing up, I had a lot of different, like, struggles with eating disorders and addictions and my family of origin and, you know, kind of really struggled to find my way and and to find what place was mine in the world. And I was either going to go to Asheville, North Carolina. Oh, you know, the Boulder, Colorado of the coast.

Yeah.

We're kind of get a one way ticket out here. And I was just really drawn to, you know, the nature and the mountains and just kind of have a pretty adventurous side and wanting to do some guiding jobs. And I didn't really know what was in store for me out here, which would be like my whole kind of just evolution of my healing journey and really kind of, you know, kind of finding out who I am and continuing continuing that on a lot of levels. But that's, you know, I eventually kind of made my home here. And this is like, this is what I claim to be my home, you know.

And that was before Pete.

Long before Pete. Yeah, almost 20 years before Pete. That was in 2007.

We met well, 2021.

Yeah. Because 20 years after Pete would be I mean, 20 years after that would be not yet happened. Right? Right. Okay. So 2007, then you guys met when.

2021.

2021 in the summer.

Oh wow. Okay. So and then how did you get there Pete.

I was living in my band climate.

Yeah. By the river.

Yeah. I kind of idolized, like, figures like Alexander Alexander Supertramp and, you know, climbers like the dirtbag climbers and people who live in, like, Jack Kerouac on the road and. Yeah, and adventuring. And so I moved into my van to and built it out to an old sprinter. And I was climbing mostly down in California during the winter is now come up, always come up for a trip to ski in Colorado, and I would swing by Boulder. Okay, my brother lived here and I really liked it. And so after after I got kind of tired of living on the road and wanted to stay put in one place, this is where I decided to come. And that was in kind of in the heat of Covid. Now I, I was living out in desert and Utah during a large part of Covid and with a friend, and then we came out to Boulder together. He still lives here, and I met Tosh actually, before I even arrived. Yeah, we met on a on a dating app and.

Okay.

You know, I was making my way to bowler and I had had, you know, I'd broken up with partner like several months back. And so I started testing the waters a little bit on some of the dating apps.

And.

Yeah, met Tosh and we stayed in touch. And when I got here, we started dating and.

I never thought I would actually meet him, you know, he was like, I'm driving from California and like, I'll be there in like a month. And I was like, yeah, right.

Dude, okay.

We're gonna see this person, you know? But like, he kept the thread going and then I, you know, I happened to be his first date when he got in town, you know?

Oh, you're like, I'm gonna nail this down. You locked this down?

I was kind of over the dating scene, and I was just like, whatever. I'll. I'll meet this this one last person before I just hang it up, you know? Yeah. And then. Yeah, that was. I think we both knew pretty quickly, you know, into our dating. At least I did. Yeah. That, you know, there was some there was something there, you know, there was something to explore. And we had no freaking idea what life had in store for us. But, like, we got little we got kind of some insight into it. We got these tattoos of these cranes, like our first year together when we were vacationing in Mexico and like, like the symbolism of cranes were like, stand together in monogamy through like any whether the symbolism of these cranes that we got.

And then you're talking about birds, not construction equipment.

No birds.

Yeah.

Bird we each have.

Yeah. They're not. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not construction cranes.

Yeah.

It was a symbol of our relationship. Tall and sturdy.

Yeah. Okay, so you hinted at a couple of times you didn't quite know what was in store. And your story has, like, a pretty, pretty big twist in it. Yeah, I mean, pizza, living the life and doing the thing and then. And then talk us through it a little bit. I'll start.

Yeah. I, yeah, I was, I was, you know, kind of living, living the dream for a guy in his mid 30s. You know, I had my own business that I was running remotely from my band, so I was the analyst and, you know, built a data analytics consulting firm, you know, while living in my van. So that's awesome. I was like, definitely living the dream. Everything that, you know, I kind of picture I wanted in my life and and I was, you know, living it up, let's say.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I was living you know, they say, you know, put, put a, put, put back in the closet. You know what? You know. So yeah. So I was, you know, I was drinking a lot. I was partying a lot. I would, you know, stay up till 4 a.m., you know, drinking around a campfire and then get up in the morning and, you know, run eight miles and, you know, then climb all day the next day. And I was doing this for years and kind of continued living that way. When I got to Boulder.

What would we met though?

No, I toned it down.

We met under the premise of you were sober.

And yeah, so I had I had been struggling with my own substance abuse challenges.

For, for.

A long time, and I had gotten sober for probably about six months. And I was really, you know, feeling good about it and feeling really healthy and got to Boulder and, you know, Tash and I met and, you know, we shared this commitment to, you know, healthy living. And soon my addiction started to take hold of me again. And I kept it managed more or less, you know, as much as you can manage an addiction. It didn't, you know, manifest in, you know, in terms of a crisis until about it was about a year later that I was diagnosed with. I started getting sick first, just this inexplicable pain.

And like a little over a year after we met.

Yeah.

And do you have your tattoos yet at this point?

Yeah. This is actually right after we had gotten our tattoos.

Yeah. Okay, okay.

You got these tattoos in Mexico, came home, and then I started feeling really sick, and I was just tired all the time. I my I was having trouble breathing. I had tachycardia. And during that time, I proposed to Tosh.

Okay.

I thought it was good or something. You know, we didn't expect it. Yeah, something as big as cancer. And it was just six months after we got back from Mexico. Six months after we had gotten engaged, that I finally, you know, got a diagnosis that I, you know, that it was a seven inch tumor in my this large about the size of my fist in the media. Steinem. And it was pressing up my heart and my lungs and wrapped around my, my trachea. So everything suddenly had a reason, which was nice, but it was terrifying reason that it was, you know, I had a really serious, you know, life threatening illness and that kind of turned everything upside down. And I overnight.

Yeah. And Tasha, you already have this giant ink thing on your arm. You're like, I guess I'm in. I'm a guess. Guess I'm doing this right. Because otherwise I have to go to this tattoo removal process, and that's going to take too long.

Exactly. That's what that's what helped me.

In it was that's what it was all about. Okay, so you tucked the sentence in there. You have this idea of we were already committed to help you living. And you, Tosha, found Boulder because you were in pursuit of something like health. Was that always real or did that was that. How did that take hold in you, that it was a value that the two of you ended up establishing together?

Yeah. I mean, and I was, you know, sober from everything, drugs, alcohol. You know, I've been in recovery from eating disorders for, you know, I went to treatment my first time when I was like 11 or 12. And I'd been to the treatment centers for anorexia and bulimia and so, like. And I was still struggling when I moved out to Boulder, you know. And so yeah, like I had that's really what my life was devoted to was like learning how to love myself, learning how to be healthy, learning what that looked like implemented into my life. And so I was pretty specific when I was looking for a partner about like, you know, it wasn't they just didn't have to be sober.

But but on that journey of health and healing and like a deeper relationship with oneself. And so, you know, there were, you know, we kind of started on certain premises that weren't, you know, as authentic looking back, right, as we discovered through the journey, because, you know, Pete, you know, it came out in Mexico that Pete was really struggling with a history of addiction and and that had never been, you know, he had I had the eyes to see it because I've struggled with it because I work with people in addiction. But so I write it eventually came out. But, you know, there was just a lot of like, things coming to the table, you know, kind of after after the fact. Right. And I think that, you know, I already felt like a deep and really close connection with Pete. And I'm also like an extremely loyal person, you know. And so and I've also been through chronic illness.

And so it's, you know, and I get what it's like right to have illness and have addiction. So when he admitted the addiction stuff to me. Of course I was going to be by his side and support him. And did it bring up questions for me about our future? Like, sure, you know, and I was willing to give it that time and space and unfolding. And, you know, with the cancer stuff, it was just, you know, that that was just it's like my second nature to to be there and to support him and to to do whatever I could to show up for him when he's going through that. It's just it's not in my nature to kind of pack my bags and say, okay, now I'm out, you know?

Yeah.

But it was really hard. There were so many extremely hard layers and levels and thresholds and things to this, you know.

Yeah. Well, okay. Now I have a question. I read this blog post that you wrote. I think it's a blog post, but it's an article kind of about your process of getting cancer. Pete wrote it, and there's a sentence that I want to ask about, which is I never blamed Tasha for her support, but I definitely resisted it. Why does that sentence exist? Like, it wouldn't even occur to me that someone would blame someone for their support, like, you know, but then what do you know about the the temptation to blame and or your resistance?

Good question.

So when I wrote that article, I was kind of looking back at how Tasha and my relationship had changed through through the, you know, initially, you know, facing addiction and then getting cancer and then continuing to face addiction through cancer. And, you know, naturally, I was sick, very, very sick going through, you know, radiation and chemotherapy and surgeries and, and Tosh became my primary caregiver and really took amazing care of me throughout this. And so she would want me to be healthy, right? Make good choices around my health, around what I'm eating and remaining sober and not falling back into addiction and all these things. And, you know, at some times it felt like to me in that time that I didn't really have my own, you know, freedom, so to speak. You know, because because Tash was there and she was, you know, out of love and a desire and kept me alive.

And by your request.

And by my request, I did it. Yeah. Because she's been deeply in alternative medicine and health coaching for, you know, her entire career. And I knew that she was deeply experienced. Yeah. And also, it's really hard to change, like every aspect of your lifestyle, you know, she's what was really required of me to heal cancer. And so as and now I work in the field as well. And I work with cancer patients to help them navigate treatment and find financial resources and understand what their, their healing options are. And so I've seen it from both the patient who's trying to make all these big changes, as well as as a health coach. And that's really, really, really difficult to change your relationship with work, with dress to do, you know, a lot of therapeutic work and looking inwards and change your relationship with, with sleep and food and, and you know.

And self.

And self. Yeah, absolutely. Like cancer really just collapses your sense of self everything about. And so sometimes I just didn't even know who I was and all these things that I that used to bring me a lot of joy that didn't think twice about like just going and eating whatever I wanted. And, you know, I'm drinking or, you know, using substances. Now, I had to be really careful about that. And I asked Tosh to help keep me accountable. So it definitely created some tension because and I would resist the thing that I asked for. And that was really tough on Tosh in our relationship. And it took time. And yet it's something we're still, you know, we still face on a day to day basis. Yeah, yeah.

I have this my career has taken this pivot in the last five years. I don't I don't know how much you know about onboarding this interview, but I, I got sober about five years ago. So I've been having this like experience of that like kind of putting down alcohol. But then what I've often said is that I, my, my real recovery has been from like anger is, is basically it like I've done more recovery around anger than I have around alcoholism. But now like so now I have this question that's kind of rooted in that neighborhood, which is cancer gets this, like kind of special place in that we fight it and we're going to kick its ass. And there's like a, there's like a mentality about we're in a battle or, you know, addiction doesn't quite have that same like of, you know, it's like I'm struggling with addiction.

I'm not like beat, I'm not a beating addictions ass, you know. But then there's also like, I would say the third kind of illness that we're talking about today is this there's cancer, which is this tumor in your body. There's addiction, which is this dependency in your soul or your mind. But then there's this other thing which is that, like I would call it my my addiction to anger, resentment, or like, that's really the health battle for me. Like when you think about maybe those three things, particularly with the idea of like, we fight cancer or we struggle with addiction. Like, do you have your own language yet around splitting those things up or dividing them or combining them? Or like, how do you think about grappling with the layers of wellness?

I like how you put it that what you were covering from was your anger, because.

The 100%.

Addiction is trauma and shame and fear and and guilt and these other and these other emotions that we use to kind of mask, you know, what we're truly feeling. And so the way I speak about cancer is very similar. I don't see it as a fight or a battle. I see cancer as a manifestation of staying like that of my life in a way that what was what's not working for me and what hasn't been working for me for a very long time. And you know what choices and habits and patterns existed in my life that created an environment in which cancer could take root. And so I see it as a direct result. I see myself, my own responsibility, deeply tied in with my cancer. You know, I don't ascribe to the idea that cancer's this genetic thing that just appears in a vacuum.

I believe that, and now there's a lot of studies and research that show that the majority of cancers are actually lifestyle based in terms of their causes. It's not just genetic. And so, you know, cancer, the tumor itself, it's a part of us is a reason it exists. And I see it as, you know, my soul calling out to me and saying, hey, like, this is not working. There's something that needs to change. And, you know, addiction is the same. You know, addiction is, you know, this deep sadness and fear and not feeling okay and using this substance. In my case, it was mostly opioids to help numb that out. And, you know, protect protect me from those emotions, so to speak.

Yeah.

I don't know if Toshi wanted to add, you know, your insight on it.

Yeah. I mean, like, I really think and I think what this makes me think of in my journey is like the chronic health issues I've been through, as well as like eating disorder recovery. Like sometimes it can feel like a real fucking fight, but like, I'm not I'm not saying like, oh, intentionally. I'm going in there with the verbiage of like, I'm fighting this, but like just the real grittiness that these experiences, what they can really feel like, right?

When you're continuing to grapple in the same ways and, and feel the same symptomology and. Right, try and get back on the horse every day. So I just want to acknowledge that in my experience, and certainly at times has very much felt like a fight that takes a lot of grit. And I think from a deeper perspective, like I have, I see these things very much as like opportunities to, you know, increase my ability to bring myself the care that I need.

Remember, remember who I am on a deeper level. Like, that's what my eating disorders really help me do is see, like, oh, I'm super identified with this body and this appearance and right, same thing with chronic illness stuff. Like what? Who am I if I don't look a certain way, if I don't feel a certain way, right. And so through peeling back those layers of like, oh, that's actually connected me to this divinity, to this presence, to this thing that is beyond that which is physical, that which is feeling or thought based.

You know, this grasping to the outer right, trying to fix it, whether that's the body or trying to get rid of certain, you know, feelings or. Right. It's it's so that it's transformed my life to be like, oh, this is my soul's opportunity to face, face pain and deal with things directly and, you know, and also have a lot of compassion and a lot of empathy and a lot of patience for the struggle that healing is on this, like very multi-dimensional existence that we have.

Okay. So you have these stories about the different struggles that you've had at the health level and the multi dimensions. Mostly we've been talking about how they've lived inside of you as a person. How do you what what theories have you formed as a result of your experience about relationship and the way that your relationship or a relationship plays a part in healing or in recovery?

Yeah. Go ahead.

I think that, you know, I really think, right, the things that that we need to heal in relationship oftentimes those younger wounds that and right in childhood and with our caregivers and the way we were met or not met our attachment stuff. Right. I think that that is directly mirrored to us, obviously, in our intimate relationships and in a, in a, you know, hopeful and healthy and more functional relationship, we can go through and have those wounds be exposed and have them be met right and healed and held space for and seen and validated, you know, in that, in each other's care and in that partnership.

But I do feel like in more, you know, maybe karmic relationships or, you know, more dysfunctional relationships, we just continue to repeat those wounds and, you know, repeat those attachment styles. And and so I think that having a container where we can heal those old wounds together. Right. And how we show up for one another and how we show up for ourselves where we can keep evolving is, is that would be my answer to that? Yeah. Does that answer your question for for my end?

Well, I don't know. I guess I'm thinking about like, like I think the cancer is interesting. I think the addiction stories are interesting. I think the, the commitment to health part is interesting. I'm interested in the relationship part. I'm interested in knowing, like, what have you learned about one another or about relationships capacity to heal and what role do you find yourself as in now? I mean, presumably you're sort of on the other side of the of the cancer journey or and the other side of the cancer journey. So you're probably not in patient caregiver role so much anymore. But what roles have you found as a result of your, of your of your of your challenges together as your relationship together.

In facing all these crises together? Yeah, our relationship has been founded really on us moving through these really challenging and scary experiences that a lot of couples might not face until 20, 30 years into their relationship. And we get out with, with, you know, with these kinds of experiences from the beginning. Yeah. And so in a lot of ways, it could have easily broken us up. And there were a lot of times when there was an enormous amount of stress on a relationship has not always been easy. Navigating these kinds of experiences just put so much stress on it. But we've we've managed to, you know, get to know one another and grow together through it. And our relationship now is really, really strong because we we have proof that we can go through, you know, these impossibly challenging situations and play together and stick through it together.

Yeah. And I feel like certain dynamics that we've really had to, like, suss out. Right? It's kind of like Pete being the identified patient and me being the one that takes care of him, you know? Yeah, I think that that has been a big right learning for us where it's like, okay, how, how and when do I let go more right. And face my own stuff. Right. That that makes me want to kind of fix and over manage and over focus on Pete. And how does Pete then fill in that space and like, take accountability and like stand in his self-responsibility of what he's saying he wants to do? So that I think that's been one of the biggest dynamics so that we can each sort of be in our own care and then also like, you know, have agreements and, and, you know, be in in each other's care in a good way, where, where it's not this like dynamic that's super codependent.

That's like me helicopter and then Pete resenting me and then which is the very kind of typical male female, you know, dynamic we can get into, right, with the nagging wife and the resentful husband. And, you know, I think this has been one of the main dynamics that we've had both work through.

How do you do it? How do you protect yourself from that dynamic?

Oh, man.

A lot of work. You know, we have a couple of therapists that we meet with every week. Not, you know, we've been doing this for a long time, you know, during and outside of crises. Yeah. And we talk a lot. We're aware of these patterns now because we've done the work of delving into it and looking at it. Yeah. And still it's challenging because those kinds of things take a, you know, just takes a lot of work and a lot of practice to, to move out of. And yeah, you know, obviously there's a lot of trust issues that come with addiction. You know, you know. Yeah. Part and parcel to going through addiction is hiding and lying and and so that's you know that's something we've had to work a lot on you know yeah.

Is building back trust. And I think as long as we're both really committed to it and you know, remember how much we love each other and how much we want to make this work. It's allowed us to get, you know, get through a lot of things that I think other couples wouldn't survive.

Yeah. And we have actual like, tools, like to be pragmatic about it. Like, now every day we have like, a radical honesty check in, you know, because we're trying to rebuild the trust from the dishonesty from addiction, which is oftentimes to the other person also feels like an infidelity. Right? Like to really honor what that feels like. So we're like, all right. Like, every day we have this check and like, once a week on a date night.

How does it go? How does the radical honesty check in go? Like, you don't have to tell me about something you need to be, but, like, what do you do? How do you check in about radical honesty?

Yeah.

It's an opportunity for us to tell each other, you know, anything and everything that happened during that day that they should that is relevant to the relationship, you know, so if I.

We're relevant to your recovery.

Too, at the end. Yeah. Am I recovery? So, you know, if I slip up, that's something you know, we would talk about if I, you know, usually that's that's kind of the main thing that, that, that is involved in these types of conversations. It's yeah, it just gives us a platform to check in so that things don't go on and on and on.

Do you do it every day at 6 p.m.? Do you do it when you remember? Do you have a specific question or ritual that starts it out? I mean, how does it work?

You know, this one is a newer one that we just started, like not that long ago because we found a need for it, you know, after our things came up in therapy and, you know, it was like, well, like, you know, we were kind of skating along, thought things were going pretty well with recovery and with honesty. And then there was, you know, there was a relapse and there was, you know, and then more things came to the surface and it was like, okay, well, right. What what else do we need to add here to our plates? You know. And so that one's kind of newer, you know, perhaps we it's just been casual like every evening before we when we sit down to like, watch a show together, you know, we'll just kind of check in and, you know, it's. So things also don't get piled up.

Right. Because to tell the truth, when you've been hiding it and, you know, and I think an important part too, and I really get this and I think this is important in, you know, when you're going through repair with someone who's in recovery is like, it's really easy for that person to feel like the identified patient, right? So we go into all this therapy and whether it was like Pete's cancer or repeats addiction, it can really feel like, right. That can get super disheartening for Pete and doesn't feel great to me either. Feeling like I'm always pointing at Pete. So, you know, I've also really tried to bring I mean, I'm human. I still have my very own struggles. I still have my places where I really need to surrender or let go or grow. And so I try to really bring that to the table, too.

So it's like, all right, here's what I'm struggling with. Here's, you know, because that dynamic, right relationally can just be, you know, it's not healthy and it's not sustainable. Yeah.

But how does Pete support Tasha?

So one of the things that, you know, Tasha is always working on since her, you know, since juggling with eating disorders and things as a, as a younger girl is maintaining a really aligned relationship with food and health. And she also has struggled with chronic health challenges throughout her life, which have made diet really, really restrictive. You know, if she doesn't stick to a very, very simple diet of essentially fresh fruits and veggies.

It should be noted. It should be noted that you're pounding a green smoothie during this interview. Well, I'm just chugging Diet Coke to try and stay awake. I know you're like my former self. I'm like a Diet Coke. Like, good. I'm like, it's like you want some of this chemical action. Here you go.

Yeah. So, you know, I, I make sure to not leave things out, that it would be hard to not partake in, you know. Right on. So if I, if I'm eating something that, you know, in my diet compared to most Americans, is extremely healthy and Tosh's diet is even, you know, five times more healthy than that.

It's it's stupid.

It's crazy. Yeah. So, you know, I'm over here in gluten free, like, organic, the healthiest cookies you can find at Whole Foods. And it's still like, if Tosh ate it.

Would it has the word cookie in it. So you're it's off limits. Yeah.

Yeah. So we also do check ins around that. Like, what are we. You know, what are we sustaining ourselves with food or what are we going to keep in the house. What are we eating? What are we cooking? I'm pretty consistent conversation, right?

Yeah. And I think you you touch on something that's been right. It kind of points to that theme where it has, because of the circumstance, has been a bit top heavy at times of like me kind of showing up and giving a lot of like, support and like, where is where is the balance, right? Where is the reciprocity. And and there is so much more reciprocity now than there was. But that was a pill battle. And those were hard conversations where, you know, after he was a bit better from cancer, I was fucking burnt out. I mean, I was seeing because I wasn't full of adrenaline having to take care of him, and he wasn't so much there for me until I really was like, hey, I need you here now to like, fill back up my cup, you know, and like, help me out. And so, you know, I think that reciprocity has been a practice and we've been learning that over time, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because you have identities, right? You have identities as they identified patient or the care provider. And yeah, both of those will probably get old, you know, like maybe tired of being the patient are tired of be the care provider. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you switch from time to time. What what's next for you guys. What's on. What do you what are you working on now or what's the thing that is, you know, that wakes you up? Are you still working on less bad or are you still working on healing, or do you have your eyes on more good at this point?

I think both, you know, each of us have a really strong vision about how we want to help people and our lives and our careers, and that drives a lot of what we do. You know, mine is focused on the cancer space and helping other patients go through what I went through a little bit, you know, easier, a little bit smoother, and to have more resources that that I didn't know about. And I also understand that notar for me to be my best to help folks, I need to also be honest about, you know, where where I've been struggling and the challenges I've had and keep working at those things, you know, all the time. It's a never ending journey, you know, of healing and work. And there's also, you know, sometimes I would love to to think that I could, you know, be done with therapy, you know, graduate.

Yeah. But it's just it's a lifelong process. You know, life always presents something new, some new challenge as we get older and grow in different ways. So yeah, I would say, you know, a lot of the healing I want to bring to others is, is achieved in my work.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think for me, I really do feel like this, like kind of just a turning point where, like, I've spent a little, spent decades of my life feeling like I'm doing the work and like, you know, kind of in the nitty gritty of the healing stuff. And that's served me. And also I feel like I'm stepping into, like crossing that lake of, like, just kind of living in more of, like the joy and and the appreciation and the goodness and almost like getting more connected to like, my wild and free nature, if you will, kind of interested in, like, doing shamanic stuff and that kind of thing.

And I think our path together, you know, there's just so much more stability, there's so much more honesty. There's there's like we've put in it feels like we did it in reverse. Right? Like instead of facing the hard shit later, we like front loaded it. And now, like, we have this kind of authentic and real connection that, you know, can withstand really tough things. And it feels like, I don't know, just moving into more lightness, more joy, more. Yeah. Doing the things every day that, you know, keep us both in line with our healing and recovery and being of service. And also like this kind of maybe like getting an RV and traveling across the country. I'm sure many ventures and, you know, kind of living it up a little bit in the healthy ways that we need to be, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Most important question. When you sit down at the, at the end of the day to watch a show, what are you watching? Most of all we have a whole range.

Of answers here.

I like historical documentaries, you know, like about World War two and different political and historical figures. We if there's some sporting event going on, like the Olympics or World Cup, we usually watch that. I like drama.

Don't lie. You also like the thrillers and the blood.

I like Drama Llama.

And like, I'm like, there was a while where, like Pete just to, like, appease me. He was like, all right, let's find love is blind. Like, whereas. So I work as a therapeutic mentor. I work with people all day long. I'm hearing their stories right. At the end of the day, I'm like, no, I need to zone out.

I will give me garbage.

Yeah, yeah, like totally. But the Olympics recently have been awesome, you know? Yeah, that's the truth.

I love it, I love it. Yeah, I'm the same way. Like I'm like, give me. I always say I like things that start with s. I like swords, superheroes, spaceships, sports. Like, just that's that's what I'm into at the end of a at the end of the day, or the serial killers are fine to like, I'll take a good serial killer. Sound like you're. Yeah. You guys could get along.

Yeah.

Hey, listen, thanks for coming on the show and for for sharing your story with us. Like, I think people who have been through stuff are fascinating. Everybody's been through something. But like, when you can look at point at it and go, oh, been through cancer. I've been through addiction. I've been through just like it's always incredible. And I'm just really grateful to hear from you. If if people do want to learn more about you or both of you or either of you, or how to be if they're struggling with cancer or whatever and want some help. Where do they go? What's the what's the target?

Well, I have a website called Evolve Health. That's my cancer coaching and resource navigation business.

It's a good looking site, by the way. I cruised it and I was like, this is like, if I had cancer, I would spend some more time here. But I don't, you.

Know, I want to talk about her, her business a little bit.

Yeah. What did you say? Hold on. You said evolve health.

Evolve health.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, there's there's tons of resources, books, articles, things that show people how to find financial support grants and how to get disability benefits and things like that. So lots.

Of that's very cool. Very cool, very cool.

Yeah. And I have my own practice. I worked in mental health now for about 16 years doing therapeutic mentoring. So similar elements to therapy and life coaching and like sponsorship kind of all married into one and support people primarily with, you know, recovery from chronic illness, from addiction and eating disorders as well as, you know, just people that really want to get to know them selves, their patterns better and learn, you know, healing, healing tools to work with themselves and live a more uplifted life. And resilient Grace is the name of my website.

I love it, and do I have to be in Colorado to take advantage of your your coaching? You're mentoring.

People in person but also virtually all over the country.

I love it, okay. Very cool. Well, listen, thanks again for coming on. I am so grateful to talk to you and I hope that you continue to, like, get healthy on this health journey that you've been working on.

You so much. Yeah, this has been awesome. You.