Multiple Love, One Commitment to Repair w/ Hazel Grace & Nico

One thing I'm really proud of as I get older is how much I let go of, like, stuff that I think I believe in or I'm entitled to or somehow somehow know. And so, I'm surprised and grateful that I'm finding myself in a position of like, being willing to learn and learn from, you know, learn from anyone. Like, I actually, again, I say that with no ego. I'm saying that like, I'm I'm kind of surprised. I'm like, oh, I'll learn that. Sure. Why not? That seems like the thing I should learn that. That's cool. So anyway, yeah. Now I'm like, hyper attained to it.

And for what it's worth.

Oh, thanks. Right on. Well, Nico, have you ever been on a cast before?

I feel like we've done.

Yes. You have.

I'm all over the internet, but I never know, because I. I don't actually participate in the actual internet part of it, so it sounds like I have been.

He has been. We've done three.

Great.

What do you mean? I'm all over the internet.

Here's the greatest post. Things about me.

Relationship.

And so does my other partner. And. And I don't look at any of it. I don't write any of it. I don't read any of it. I'm just.

Yeah.

By other people that I'm on there.

Right on. All right. Well, there it is. So does my other partner. Tell me about that. You both you both have other partners or you have other partners or how does this how does that part of your relationship work?

Yeah. So we we identify as polyamorous. I've been practicing polyamory for over a decade. And I have another regular partner that I see, you know, like once a month or so. And, yeah, I've been with her for just a bit longer than than I've been with Hazel Grace.

Yeah. Y'all are approaching eight years.

Approaching eight years? Yeah. So, yeah. And she has her other sort of main partner, and he lives a mile up the road from me. And we're really close, good friends. And so we, all three of us hang out together and, Yeah.

And I've been practicing polyamory for 20 years, and. I have been very poorly until I met this guy. So, you know, and I say I felt more monogamous in the last seven years than I have in the 20 years that I've been polyamorous. And I make jokes that Nico's ruined me because I just I have not met anybody that I'm interested in. The bar has been set so high. However, I just went on a really great date last week. That and Nico actually knows the guy and gave him the gave gave the thumbs up approval. And I'm very excited about this new potential sweetie in my life.

Yeah, right. Nico, you said the three of us hang out. Did the four of us ever hang out? Is that a thing?

Yeah, yeah, we definitely. We definitely spend time together. It's, you know, a lot of just in community events and sort of different family affair type things. I would say we don't we don't intentionally spend a whole bunch of time together.

We don't go on double dates that are kind of.

I mean, we we have gone on double dates, but it's not a common thing. The Nico, Emma and Neptune enjoy hanging out more than I enjoy hanging out with the four of them. But last summer we were on a vacation together with a group of people, and I went to a maze birthday party a couple of weekends ago. So I love a may who's my metamorph? Metamorph is my partner of my partner. Okay. And so we have deep care trust. And she's not someone that I like. I don't hang out one on one with him a lot, but she's a part of our poly cool. And it's a really sweet, beautiful, caring poly cool,

Yeah. Like I said, as I get older, the more I'm like, okay, I'll learn from stuff. And I think I might have mentioned to you before I came up at a very norm core like, this is how you this is how it works, including things around like how you went to college and how you spent your money and how you. And again, the older I get the money, I'm like, oh, you don't have to do it that way. You could do it other ways that that people that couldn't kind of figure out how to make that work. How how did you figure out how to make that work? Did it did you wake up one day and be like, I think I'm going to do this, or did you have a your own entry or what? What is how did you find yourself here?

Yeah. So I had so. When I met my, my former partner my, my technically still my like wife on paper. Avani, we met, at a time where we were both coming out of our, our sort of long term monogamous relationships that we realized didn't that didn't work for us and that we wanted to we were wanting to explore open relating. And so I got to start learning about open relating in polyamory with somebody who was also sort of on that same journey.

So that was really cool that we got to learn and grow together. You know, we throughout our time, throughout our seven years together had other partners. And we're learning how to how to do the open relating thing. But the thing that I think the thing that really clicked for me, that was an was just kind of like you're saying, is that the realization that we get to make whatever it is that we want in relationship if we choose, like being in relationship with somebody, intimate relationship doesn't automatically come with a set of rules or instructions. It's like, oh, well, like what? How is it that you want to exist? How do you want to relate to the people in your life? And so that that was the thing that really did it for me is just really realizing that, you know, we get to make we get to make up whatever we want and choose what's most aligned for, for us.

So that was a beautiful way to to sort of enter into it. And there was a lot of learning and growing that got, you know, that happened. That got me to the point of learning how to do that. Well, you know, growth, growing pains and and hiccups and challenges all the way through were all really beautiful growth moments.

Like, I like to say that polyamory is the biggest growth edge I've ever experienced in my life. Just learning, learning how to navigate. You know, obviously there's personal motivation and like, what is it that I want in relationship? But also being really tuned into the relational ecosystem and like what is what is good for everybody. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things about it, is that when it's all above board and we all agree on what it is that we want to do and how we want to relate, we can settle into that more and explore what that means to each of us, and continue to grow and morph and change around what it is that we want in relationship. What's working, what's not.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Here's a grace. What about you?

I was getting a master's degree in college in Michigan, and someone said the word polyamory to me, and I was like, what is that? And as soon as they said what it was, I was like, no wonder relationships haven't made sense to me, because that makes sense to me. And it was just like this automatic, like, this is who I am. This makes sense. And the book at the time, which was the Polyamory Bible, which is The Ethical Slut, was the first book I ever read on it. And it was just like it just made sense to me. And. Nico and I were dating in 2019. I was living in Colorado, he was living in Northern California, and I was I was angry, I was cursing at the universe for finally meeting my person. But he was living very far away. Things happened and Covid happened, and so it made the most sense for me to not lose the house that I had just purchased in Denver if I moved in with Nico.

So I called Nico and I said, Nico, I know this sounds crazy. We're ten months into our relationship. If I drive and move up like go out there just for Covid. I could potentially not lose the house I just bought, turned it into an Airbnb and he said, let me check in with my wife. And he calls me back five minutes later and he says, she said, we'll figure it out. Come on out. So I through I spent a few hours throwing bags into my car just for Covid and drove out here, and I moved in with him and his wife in a 500 square foot house in the middle of winter, which is which was like, oh, that was polyamory on steroids. My PhD in polyamory during during Covid, in a moving, moving like leaving my community where I lived for 15 minutes, 15 years and my clients and my community.

And so it was a it was a big stretch and it was beautiful. And I'm really proud and impressed with how we navigated it. And it was very uncomfortable and hard. Sometimes it's hard for me. I didn't even I didn't have a bed for like six months. I was like living outside in the unfinished bathhouse or living in the van, or like, sleeping in the tent outdoors. It was it was, it was, it was courageous.

Right on. I am sure that I have a ton of misconceptions about what polyamory is. I wonder, though, if you you could tell us, like what are what are the main ones and how do you flip them over? I mean, an easy one for me is that people choose to pursue open, open relationships because they are unhappy with what they're getting in their current relationship, and they're looking just for a way to kill two birds with one stone, have their cake and eat it too, right? I don't have to do the painful thing of leaving this relationship. So how about we open it up like I've heard that too many times to count, but those are the ones that often fall apart. Like, if I'm looking for an escape from something, I usually don't find the the solution in some, you know, made up relational dynamic that I haven't really thought through.

But what other misconceptions are your how do you even think about that one?

I mean, that sounds likened to someone saying, I know what's going to save our marriage. Let's have a baby. Yeah, that is like to that kind of thinking which sets people up for for failure, I think. So, I mean, in, in our case, we came to polyamory because it's how we identify and, you know, the simplicity for me of polyamory is and the word what is the word mean? Poly means multiple emery means love, multiple love. And that can look like many things. And Nico and I identify that we are in a threat bowl. So like a three, a triangular relationship. But the other person that we are in a trouble with, we don't have sex with him, but we are like family and we share meals together and we help each other do laundry. We live on the same land and he's like, he's integrated into our family and he is in relationship with us. We just aren't sexual with him.

That's a new scenario that you haven't already described to me, right? This is a third okay. Yeah okay. So also counts.

For us. It does. And that's what's cool. It's like yeah it's like imagining a snowflake. There's like infinite numbers of snowflakes. And so this can look like I get I get fascinated by the infinite possibilities that there are in the world of polyamory because there's, you know, you can have someone that's in relationship where someone is, like, monogamous within the relationship and the other person, you know, might have other relationships.

So it's just it's just endless of what the possibilities are. And like Nico said, it's like checking in with the ecosystem of the people that are connected to those relationships is what's what feels true and healthy and well for the relationship. And one of the kind of one of the grounding philosophies that Nico and I have is that if we're going to choose to engage with a person outside of our relationship, that that the the intention is that that person is going to enhance and add value to our lives in whatever way that looks like.

But it's like, you know, there's I think the beautiful thing about polyamory is that, like, Nico can't is not going to be my everything always for all of my needs all the time. And so like how cool it is that there could be other people that come along that maybe like have a particular different prism of, of of spirit or personality or enjoyment of an activity that Nico can't meet me and vice versa. So. Yeah, that's what I got.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love all that. And I think the one thing that's popping into my mind in just response to your question is just sort of this idea of, of like, how could it be, how can this idea sort of be misconstrued? And I feel like there's there's something that really draws people to it, but also there's a second part that's often missed. So what I'm what I'm I guess what I'm trying to say is a big part of, I think, people's attraction to polyamory, and also my own, is this idea of essentially getting to getting to do what I want in relationship, getting to to choose an experience for myself and relating with somebody. And like, that's beneficial to myself. So what I feel like a lot of people think is, oh, well, polyamory means I can just do whatever I want.

And if that's the way that you've set up your agreements and your relationship, that's true. But the second half that I find that's often missing is so I get to do whatever it is that I want in relationship, and I get to show up for the the impact and the consequential consequences of my actions. Right. So like the first part I feel like is easy for people of like, sweet. I can do whatever it is that I want. And the part that I feel like is a lot of the time, missing or misunderstood is like understanding your impact on those around you, in the relationships that you're in, and actually showing up and putting in the time and energy and effort and learning the communication skills to navigate what comes up, you know, in choosing those actions.

Because just just because I'm totally free to engage with somebody and have a relationship and even fall in love with somebody, doesn't mean that I'm negating my partner's feelings and and relationship to me having that relationship.

Yeah. And there's, there's lots of different structures of course. And Nico and I identify as being anchor partners and that feels important for us to use versus the term primary. Because primary can have an for some people that can be coupled with hierarchical power. So Nico and I don't have that. We don't have to ask permission. There's not a checking in of there is a consideration and care. We do have a clear agreements with our whole poly about engaging sexually in a good way. And so we have an ongoing thread of just keeping everyone posted. And so we have really clear agreements about when we're engaging sexually with people. But yeah, so we we don't have to check in. There's no veto power. And when we make choices because we're very kind partners, we are considering the other person.

You know, you're mentioning it a little bit. Another misconception a lot about polyamory is that it's all about sex or it's primarily about sex. But you've got this love relationship with the the guy who lives on your property that is like this other version, and then you maybe have other versions and other versions. I mean, I'm not. So I think the thing that is intriguing to me about kind of how you're describing it is this idea of this is how we identify or this is how I identify. It's not a necessarily a, a thing you're doing as much as a way you are. Is that closer?

That feels true.

Yeah. I relate to that much.

Okay. I want to shift gears a tiny bit. I think you were joking when you said you got a PhD in polyamory by virtue of, like, living in this 500 square foot house with two other people. You do have a PhD, though, in.

I do in human sexuality.

Right on. And so, Nico, I know Hazel Grace from a different context and you and I are just meeting and I get this question a lot, or my wife does anyway. What's it like to be in relationship with a relationship expert or a human sexuality expert, or what is what is that for you? How do you how do you describe that to people or to yourself even?

I say, I would say that it's it's fascinating to me. It's really it's really fun for me. So I'm, I'm also a relationship nerd and I'm, I'm very curious and interested in always learning about the human experience and in relationships. By would say that there is there is an aspect of it that is like an invitation to be my best self in relationship. Like there's, there's like a, a certain level of, of standard of, of integrity that is just, you know, inherent in the way that we operate. But also with his grace being so public and being a teacher in this, it's like another layer of inviting, inviting, like rigorous integrity. Yeah. Which I actually I, I, I like and I appreciate I like to think that that's how I would be anyway, it's not just because of that, but I could I could see that being challenging for some people.

But I, I like it for, for for what it is. Yeah. Yeah. So I really enjoy geeking out and getting to be a sounding board for Hazel Grace as well in their, in their work around that. And I feel like I get to be supportive influence and, and you know, so that his grace is also so his a grace isn't just in an echo chamber, you know, like getting to bring in my perspective. Yeah.

He he also does teach with me sometimes.

Right. Yeah. I think you're saying something that I say a lot, which is people will ask me if I have a perfect marriage and I say, I don't have a perfect marriage, but I also don't have any excuses, like the idea of being connected to this kind of content in this world as much as I am means I don't get to go, oh, I don't know how to do that, or I never learned or I don't know if that's a priority right now. You know, like, so I it just raises the level of what did you say integrity or like, kind of raises the awareness around how important that is in this effort. You have a thing that you call the art of repair. I want to hear about that. I want to hear about why that's your topic, why that's the thing that you care about. It's my favorite topic, but I want to know where that comes from for you personally. And, you know, and then I want you to tell me about it.

Yeah. So the origin story is I grew up in a household that was full of love and support and nurturing and safety. And also my father was militaristic, disciplinarian and heavy hand and expected perfection. And when it wasn't, we would get hit or yelled at. And so it was a very so I grew up with the combination of love and violence were coupled, they were melded together. And so then I went and spent 20 years in toxic, abusive relationships sexual, physical, verbal, emotional, psychological, any kind of abuse. I did it all. It did it good. Zach. And then I was just so bound and determined to experience a healthy relationship in my lifetime. And I, my dad and I had.

Over the years, I had attempted several different repair conversations about the impacts of what it was like growing up like that. And each time I tried and we didn't get there, I was like, back to therapy, back to family, until I had this conversation with him. And I had done so much of my internal work that I came to him so soft and so. In my compassionate, gentle heart of, just like dad, I really want you to hear what it was like for me growing up. And if you're willing to tell me what you heard me say. And I was just, all I ever wanted was for him to acknowledge here, understand and take responsibility for what he had done. And I hadn't gotten that yet.

And so this, this one conversation that was like a before our relationship and after a relationship kind of conversation, and he was able to feed back what I, what I said, even though he didn't know what the hell that meant, I told him how to do it. And he said, what I'm hearing is when I yelled at you and I hit you growing up, you were terrified. And one of the impacts was you then dated men who treated you the same way. And I. I never thought I was going to get that in my lifetime. Zach. And the next day he calls me and he says, I, I can't go back and change what I did, but I want to show up for you now, and I'd like to pay for your therapy for the rest of your life.

Oh, wow. Okay.

And I have taken him up on that. You.

You're like. And now I see Terry reel three times a week and.

And then six months later, I met Niko. And and so much of the the art of repair came from those conversations I had with my dad has come from the years of being in a relationship with Niko, and also the 14 years of working professionally as an intimacy and relationship coach. And the actual structure itself came when I was sitting in a tree. I was doing a vision solo, vision fast, and I was sitting in this tree and the word repair showed up with all the words. And it just it was the structure that encapsulated, the process of teaching people how to navigate after ruptures. And so, you know, I would have clients come to me all the time. They're like, we want better sex.

And I kept finding myself as a sex coach over and over and over, coaching people on how to communicate and how to clear the ruptures and the pain that that was, that was buried underneath. Because that's like, you don't want to have sex because you're in pain and you don't know how to clear and get out of that pain. So I kept finding myself doing that over and over, and I was like, this is what I want to do. And so now I'm really inspired about doing intergenerational healing and teaching, you know, kids and their adult kids. And yeah, that that is lighting me up more than anything right now. And then you'll probably have great sex.

Well, yeah, I get the part that it's hard to have intimate sex with somebody that you're in disrepair with. It's a it's the hard work of knowing that you're in disrepair is sometimes challenging, and then pursuing that thing is a different piece of work altogether. Nico, do you have a repair origin story of your own?

I grew up very differently from Hazel Grace. Well, not so differently, but somewhat differently in that my my parents, I never saw my parents fight. They never raised their voices at each other. My father was, like, strict and firm, but. But never, never mean. Never. You know, like, couple spank, like, sometimes getting spanked growing up. But he loathed to do it, you know, would hit him with a with a belt. And he was like, I'm not ever going to do that. I'm always going to use my hand. So I know how how hard I'm hitting, you know, is he was very, very aware of not perpetuating sort of his, his father's way.

Of.

Of enforcing punishment. But I also I also didn't get to see my parents repair or resolve. I didn't get to I didn't necessarily get even though I had a great example of my parents being in love and successful monogamous relationship and my grandparents on both sides. You know, I had a lot of I had a lot of really good examples of successful monogamous relationships. I didn't have a lot of I didn't have any skills taught to me, but I was always very interested in and was always sort of a harmonizer and, you know, breaking up fights in school and just, like, interested in that. And I, you know, I went on to have multiple long term relationships and they were all they were all very nice and sweet.

And I didn't we weren't fighting. We didn't I've, I've not spent a lot of time fighting a relationship. And so when his Grace and I started, started dating and, and there was a lot of sort of learning and development that was happening, I was just, I was just really intrigued and was really loving that, you know, his grace put in all of this effort to learn these things and to understand them really deeply. I got to have the experience of being in relationship and having experiential knowledge of it, but not necessarily having the language for it. And so it was really fascinating for me and, and fun and exciting to get to, to actually put words to these things that we were experiencing, that we were doing. And so it was, it was sort of a continuation of, of how I felt like I was being but, but expansive.

And we got to explore that more deeply. And. Yeah, so it was, it was a really it was a it was a really cool experience for me. Continues to be an amazing experience for me, for us to get to, to unpack and learn and figure out, you know, why it is the way that we're we are acting the way that we are and that it works well and that it's promotes.

So yeah, I think you said this thing is tucked into what you said, but for those of us and those of you out there who grew up in homes that you never saw your parents argue, you also never saw them repair. So it's like you may have been spared the the kind of the violence piece of it, but you didn't ever get the other side. And maybe that's what you're describing when you talk about, you know, it was a fine environment to grow up. And it just didn't you didn't learn these skills.

Yeah. And it was also so what what happened more recently. And so my, my mother passed away number of years ago. And I've become closer with my father and like finally started having more deeper conversations with my, my father who didn't have good experience. It didn't have good demonstrations of how to communicate.

So.

Limited in his in his capacity. And, you know, I basically recently learned, oh, my parents swept under the rug. They weren't actually dealing with their things. They just weren't they just weren't they weren't fighting. But they were they were also like not harmonious all the time. And so that's that's also what I learned and what I, what I learned to emulate is, is avoidance, essentially conflict avoidance. And even still, even with the skills that I have, it's it's, you know, it it's difficult to have difficult conversations. And I'll, you know, I'll get kind of worked up about it internally and like a lot of anticipatory grief before actually having the conversation, even now that I have the skills. So.

I mean, I think the way that I've heard you describe it is like they weren't fighting, they were sweeping things under the rug. And the cost was there was like lack of like depth, full intimate connection like that was like one of the costs was. Yeah. Lack of depth.

Which something I've, I've really I've liked a friend of ours language to for me recently is being, being emotionally current with somebody like even if, if there's sort of things that we've swept, swept under the rug, we can still be copacetic and we can be sweet and we can be long and and all of that. But without actually getting to the point of unpacking those, the, the, the availability for intimacy to actually like, grow and blossom and deepen it, it just doesn't feel like it's there without that emotional currency.

Yeah.

Or being emotionally current.

Yeah. He's a great I'm going to put you on the spot because you just finished a course that I taught one day. You logged on and you were happy because you were like last night, me and Nico repaired, and then you revealed that. And I was the one who messed it up. Do you remember this? And, like, so this was like, I got to I got to practice being on the other side because usually I don't embedded maybe in there is usually Nico is the one who creates the rupture. But whatever it was in this case, you were like, I was the one who created the rupture. So can you tell us that story? What happened? Like, how did you how did.

I am excited to talk about how I showed up in a way that I needed to repair with Nico, partly because there's been this inequity or this imbalance of like a lot of the repairs have been one way, meaning the one who's like, really hurt, which has just been an interesting thing for us to like, look at over the seven years. And part of that is Nico for sure has made clear mistakes. He's broken agreements, but also because of my trauma background, I feel like there's more potential for me to like, feel hurt and be triggered by so. But this, this one time that you speak of happened, I don't know, maybe a month or so ago I had. Okay, so I come home for from a two week trip and I was like super excited to see Nico. And I walk into the I walk into his home and I have this like hope and excitement, anticipation of being like, you're home. You're home.

Yeah.

And I see him and he is bolding laundry and putting clothes into his drawer and not coming towards me. And when he comes towards me, he's just like looks sullen and like his shoulders are kind of down. And I'm like, you don't seem excited to see me. And he was like, I'm actually not feeling very well. And I was just my heart was just broken and I was just in this, like, fixed position of like, this must mean that you don't love me as much as I love you. Or like, I can't believe you're not excited to see me. And I was just really in it. And then Nico was like, well, you also don't look excited to see me. And oh, wait, that was one of the things that did happen. Oh, you broke your ankle. Oh, that's the one. That's the one. I mean, that's the more potent one.

So the the other one was, was this, this sort of rupture that we, that was actually fruitful in coming more into connection with because I was like, this is this is also a like a story that that's come up before where he's like, this is like you don't you, don't you, you're not acting the way I thought you would. And it must mean that. And I'm like, this story is getting a little old, like, you know, so that that was a thing and that was helpful to, to process. But this other one was.

Okay, I got it.

Yeah. You got it.

So I get home.

Well, you're demonstrating also in real time that our memories are fallible. Like we think that we know exactly what happened and in what order. And you can't even remember. Was it this or was that? No, that was a different one. And that was the thing. And I've had people disagree about what room they were in. They were quoting each other directly. Quotes are exactly right. But they like I was in the car. No, we were in the kitchen. It's fascinating what memory does. Anyway, so this other one is.

So this other one is I, I'm in town doing something and Nico texted me is like, hey, can you stop by when you come home? Nico and I don't live in the same house, by the way. We each have our own tiny homes where one minute walk away. And so I was driving home and Nico said, can you stop by? I need to tell you something.

And I didn't text it because you were out having fun with somebody. You were out having a good time, and I didn't want to be a downer.

So I walk in and he's laying there and he's watching a movie and he says, I think I broke my ankle. And I got pretty like pretty angry pretty quickly. Like, if you broke your ankle, why are you not taking actions to take care of your potential broken ankle? And then he said, I don't know where my.

I'm waiting to hear back from my log in because my, my, my medical, which I hadn't, I hadn't had to use in this configuration, I is linked to my former partner still getting married to. And so we, I had to get some information from her, so I was waiting to get information from her.

Yeah. What I heard you say is I don't. What I remember hearing you say is I don't have my medical card. And so. I got I got really hot. I got really hot because I'm like, like, I want you to take care of your body. How do you not have your medical card? And it looked like when I walked in that he wasn't like taking action steps or like taking care of it. And he's like, I think I'll just like, take check it out in the morning. And I was like, no, you need to go right in the morning and urgent care. And I just got really, really intense. And at at some point Nico said, I actually just need some space. I'm like, I'm not willing to meet you here because I not I was not in a state of actually supportive or helpful at all.

And so I remember he was on the bed and I was on the floor, and I just laid down and I was like, putting my knees up. And I was just like, breathing. And I was not willing to speak until I felt like I was in a more caring, centered, grounded state. So that's that was the that's when I made a mistake. And then we were able to and once we were able to kind of like come down in more center and you got the medical card, I was able to to support him in learning about the American medical system, which Nico is new to on the Canadian, and kind of support him and help him figure out what go by what time and advise him to, you know, get there early and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that was that was a moment where I got to repair with Nico.

Well, okay. But how does that how does that connected say to this thing that you've designed called the Art of repair? What is the what are the elements that you were cherry picking or maybe all of them? Did you work through a process? Did you just get lucky? Is it so built into you? But what would you point to that says this is how you do it?

Yeah. So once I the first step in the process is resourcing. So once I recognize.

The art of repair sorry, the art of repair. Each letter stands for something I noticed. When you send it to me, you always send in all caps rep air. There's like, yep, it's all right.

Right on. So it's okay.

I like this.

What's that?

I like those the thirst r is to recognize. Is that what you said.

Resourcing.

Resourcing.

So it's it's. It's it's causing pausing. And so as soon as Nico said I can't handle this right now, it helped me like become aware that I was dysregulated and I was not in a position to either repair what I just did or help or something. So my job right in that moment was to stop and disconnect from Nico and ground in myself. And so I laid on the floor and I was holding my legs, and I was just breathing until I felt center calm enough to be able to come back into the conversation. And so.

And essentially the what I was doing in the moment was even though I was so I was also dysregulated, I was overwhelmed. And his Grace's reaction to me in that situation was causing me to be even more overwhelmed. And so by me saying I actually just need some space right now, was was essentially the same move of like, I'm needing to research by not being with your reaction right now. So both doing that.

Yeah. So as I'm also laying there resourcing myself, the next step in the process is empathy e empathy for self and other. Like I was like as I was resourcing myself, I was like, oh wow, this is a really shitty situation. Nico's ankles broke, he can't find his medical card and I come. In with him like, wow, that must be really shitty for him and pithy for myself of like, I really care about my partner. And it's a big deal to me that he doesn't know where his medical card is, and he could have a broken ankle, and I want him to get his hair right. So empathy for herself and for other. And then the permission to to have a repair conversation is, hey, Nico. And this is, this is later some other point later of like, hey, are you open to have a conversation about how I was showing up for you in that moment?

I love that word permission. I love that word that you it's contracting. Right. It's saying is is now a good time to do this thing that maybe, maybe even in spite of your resourcing, you haven't quite equipped yourself for. So. Oh, I love it. What a nice surprise.

So I want to talk about how I showed up so that we can come back into connection. And this moment I'm feeling like a level 2 or 3 on the charge scale. I think it'll take five minutes. Are you open to having that conversation? So that's the permission. The next step in the process is acknowledge. So acknowledges. Let's talk about what happened. Let's get on the same page about what we remember. What what's your reality. My reality. Our reality is either mesh or they don't. And that's okay if they don't. As long as we understand one another's reality. It's not about who's rights, not about disagreement, agreement. It's about this is your reality, my reality that they either match. In this case, they matched.

So I said, when I got home, you were laying on the bed. You said you didn't know where your medical card was. And then I started raising my voice and asking and like and basically berating you for not being responsible. And he was like, yep, that's what I remember happening. And so after we acknowledge what happened, then we move into impact. So the impact is, what was that like for you when I was treating you that way? And so, you know, Nico got to say that he was feeling overwhelmed and shut down and hot and needed space. And the impact on me was feeling like embarrassed and sad that I was treating my partner that way. And the last step in the process is called Restore Integrity, which there's five different actionable steps that you can take.

To.

Begin to rebuild the trust. It's a menu. You don't have to do all of them. One of them is pretty simple remorse. I apologize, I regret that wasn't signed. That's not how I want to show up. If we could go back in time, redo as one of them. Another option. If we could go back in time. As soon as I recognize that I was hot, I maybe what? I've walked back out, put my feet on the ground or when when I when I sensed that I was not actually helping the situation. Maybe asking like, how can I support you instead of berating him? And then Nico, you know, if we would were to redo that situation, what what would you have won had done differently?

Yeah, just just more of a more of a check in and like, hey, how are how are you. How is how is your body? How are you feeling about this? Just those sorts of things.

Yeah.

Or maybe you would have not broken your ankle. I would have not hurt myself. Yeah, yeah.

So that's the repair process information.

Man, I love it, I love it. I think it's a I think it's very cool. There are a couple of surprises in there even for me. I mean, they make sense to me. But the thing the thing I like about it is in particular this idea of permission being the third thing, you know, like you don't just like immediately go, hey, can I do this without resourcing yourself or finding empathy? I mean, that's a really critical step in the equation and I'm glad to know of it. I'm going to steal it and share it with people. And also if people want to learn more about it, though, from you or with you, talk about how that works in your in your world and your scene.

Yeah. So you can find all the information at my website. Doctor Hazel Grace I teach in-person workshops in Northern California and Colorado. There's an online course that you can take. Self-paced course. I work one on one with couples. Nico and I are teaching at Esselen Institute. This is our second year in a row to teach so you could find us over there.

Which is where? Where did you say?

The institute in Big Sur, California.

Okay. Yeah. I'll check that out. And then. Nico, what do you do? What's your what's your jam like when you wake up in the morning? What do you what do you what happens next?

So I'm I'm a sawyer. I'm basically a lumberjack. I'm one who saws wood. Okay. I have a mobile, a mobile sawmill business. I go to people's property and cut through trees into lumber for them. And then also in the winter, I do snow removal up in mountains.

I love it, I love.

It very, very much. Physical, physical, hands on, labor type things.

I don't think I, I don't think I ever knew that word. Sawyer. Like, that's a person who saw us for a living. Yeah.

Like.

And is that what Tom Sawyer, his last name is? He comes from a. Is that connected to the novel? That a story at all? Do we know anything about his family or. It just happens to be his last name or do.

You know? No, I was, I just been so long since I read it was in high school or whatever.

Yeah.

So that's that's like a lot of, you know, a lot of the, the root of a lot of people's last names.

Yeah.

Is that had a lot to do with with what it is.

What role they had in their community. Yeah.

And every once in a while he teaches with me.

Yeah. That's cool. I love it. I'm really glad we got to make this happen. I really enjoyed having you in my class, and you added a ton of value to our whole our whole scene and love what you're doing. And today we got, like, a part one and a part two. We got to learn a little bit about polyamory. We got to a little bit of let the Art of repair. And I think I'm just glad that we were able to make it happen. Thanks so much for joining me.

Thank you so much, Zach.

Thank you.