Three Traits That Predict Relationship Happiness - Dr. Shannon Curry

Can I ask you about your own relationship?

Of course, I love talking about that.

You are married to Ty. You said something to me interesting that I think people need to hear. ⁓ and I want to make sure that like, you'll know what I'm talking about. So I'm going to say, I'm just going to say a little bit of it and then you take it from there. But you talked about, ⁓ or said to me one time, like he's such a good guy, but maybe he's not like the sexiest or the, the, hottest or something like, because like people aim for like these really hot guys or tall guys or whatever, but

Mm-hmm.

The Target is a kind guy. And do you remember what you're talking about? don't think you you certainly weren't putting him down, but you were sort of like, I'm so glad I gave up my dream of the, of the hunky hunker type and instead.

Yeah. It was, think that, so he actually is hot and ⁓ that's always something like I don't want, I sometimes feel bad disclosing because, but I think what I might've been referring to is when I was dating and what I was looking for. I had no idea what he looked

I think so too, that's why I think I'm a little bit surprised. Ahem.

and what had happened was, well, it was Tinder. And he was actually, he was wearing a giraffe costume in his photo. And then he used to work on an oil rig. And so it was his giraffe costume. And then he basically was on the rig most months out of the year. And so like,

Wait, what do mean you had no idea what you looked like? He looked like... Okay. All right, right on. Okay. Okay.

hard hat stuff. But because of this talk I had gone to at the American Psych Association conference, I run by Tai Toshiro, not my husband, different type, but also wonderful. He's a psychologist and a researcher, a statistician. And like the Gottman's, he was interested in what led to lasting happiness and love. And he actually looked at personality traits. And he found that there were, He also looked at statistics and found that you were far more likely to be able to find a partner if you focused on really reduced your list, your wish list to three primary traits. You were going to find a partner. And the question really isn't, will you find a partner? If you have three things in mind, you will find somebody with those three things. The question is, are your three things going to make you happy?

Okay.

And so he found that the three personality traits that were actually most correlated with happiness had nothing to do with hotness or looks or wealth. And actually it was conscientiousness, of low neuroticism, so like flexibility and emotional stability, and then actually moderate adventurousness. So people who are high in adventurousness, who like new shiny things and new adventures, it's not that, I mean, that is correlated with higher rates of infidelity in general. But even if there's not infidelity, somebody who is high in adventurousness is going to have a hard time just focusing on you and the marriage. And they're always going to kind of have new ideas. I'm very high in adventurousness and Ty is incredibly patient with me.

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. These things that you're describing, these three things, is that universal or is that somehow unique to your profile?

gosh, we'd have to ask Tai Tashiro about that. But I think, I mean, my understanding is that in, well, in the study that he conducted, and it was longitudinal study, the couples that were most satisfied in their marriage over time, they, yeah, and my understanding is I believe it was just one partner had to have those traits. I don't know. We'll have to look at the research. He can better answer these questions, but it was incredible. It was a really robust study. It was really fascinating.

those three things. Yeah, no, I'm like.

And I was sitting there and just thinking, I mean, I really love science. I really love science. So I knew this speaks to me. If somebody is telling me that this is well-substantiated, this is evidence-based, I can do that. And he also controlled for some of the caveats. He said, look, I've talked to my students about this, and a lot of them have tried it. And they will come back and tell me how hard this is, because they go to a bar and you get a drink in you, and all you want is hotness and attraction.

Hmm, I can see that. Mm-hmm.

So

Yeah.

we've got this evolutionary drive that's pulling us towards some of these traditional traits that we're attracted to but he said, know, if you we've changed the rules of the game like we're living now till we're 70 80 not to our 30 So we're still attracted to things that are gonna help us reproduce a punch before we die at age 30 from 200,000 years ago and the game is different now and so those urges are actually hindering us and he said if you think you're gonna roll over when you're 50 and

Chemistry. ⁓

be like, I'm so glad you're hot. You have another, know, then great, choose hotness. But frankly, I love going to bed every night with Ty. Like I have this little moment of gratitude no matter what's happening in my life. Like I know what it's like to be in a really deeply unhappy relationship. I've been there before. I know what it's like to feel unstable, to feel afraid, to feel miserable in a relationship. ⁓

Hmm

to feel like I don't know what's coming tomorrow if we're gonna still be together, to wish my life were different. And at the end of the day with Ty, what I feel is like no matter what is happening in my life, I am so grateful for our tiny little family. Just me, my husband and my dog. And anywhere we have a roof over, I remember once thinking the grid was going down when I was doing a forensic case in Arizona. I'd just come out of the courthouse, I was just like.

Yeah.

downtown Phoenix and there's nothing there outside of the courthouse. There is like a freeway and desert. And it was end of the day. Everybody had gotten in the car, there even security. Everything closes down. It's just government buildings. And the legal team had all left and I was planning to get an Uber and my phone wasn't connecting. I thought I just needed to turn it off, turn it back on. I'd been in court all day, maybe something weird happened. And I couldn't get it to come back on. It was just SOSing. and I start walking around and it's starting to get dark. I can't connect. And I get in this real kind of sudden panic mode where I'm like, I will not die here. I will not die here. Is the grid going down? everything? I have a lot of clients, military clients, some who are in government, and I hear a lot of things and I was like, this is it, the grid is down, the grid is down, the grid is down. I know enough to know that's very bad.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

And I imagined myself like taking, I was like, okay, how do I want to handle this? I kind of went through the motions in my mind. was like, I'll take off my heels and I will just start running home and I'll never make it, right? I'm not going to be able to run through the desert to Newport Beach, California in my suit, but I'm going to die trying because the idea of being with my husband and my dog was like, that would carry me. I'm not going to die here knowing I'm not getting closer to them.

Yeah.

And we can know that we owe it all to Tai Toshiro.

OK. ⁓ Well, okay, so this is something I want. I can, I'm trying to figure out which fork I want to take because I'm fascinated by the three things. The three things are what now?

Bring it back, Zach, bring it back. Okay, don't remember, I'm talking about somebody else's research here. So don't 100 % quote me on this. But what I have integrated into my memory and what I think it was was conscientiousness number one, which I think because you love semantics, you might appreciate this. think of conscientiousness as not just being nice, which anybody can be nice and be a pushover, but conscientiousness already, it covers three things. It's not just niceness, but the person also,

That's okay, that's okay. Well, but you're also talking about your partner. Yeah. Meaning

has to be pretty motivated to follow through on meeting your needs, right? Like a conscientious person is the guy who drives the car around so you don't have to walk out in the rain. Like he'll walk out in the rain, go through the extra hassle of getting the car and bringing it around because he knows you just got your hair done, right? That's thoughtful and that takes some motivation. So you're getting a motivated person and then you're also getting an intelligent, like intuitive person.

Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Okay.

who's paying attention to the details and knowing what actually will satisfy. And I will tell you what, Tai is exceptionally conscientious. It is one of those things that makes me appreciate him and admire him more and more every day. that admiration is a quality. People think, well, don't you have to have chemistry? Let me tell you again, if you want to roll over when you're 70 and be so glad your partner is hot, fine.

Yeah.

But real chemistry is admiration. And Ty blows me away with how well he knows me, how well he knows our friends, the thoughtful things he's always considering, and just those little blips that are so insightful because he's paying attention. I just am so in love with my husband, and it's because of conscientiousness. And I did not know that was possible to sustain that over time. And the research was right.

Okay. Okay. How long you guys been together? Right on. Okay. So Consciousness, what's the second one?

10 years. Second one I think was low neuroticism, ⁓ which I understand to be essentially one, if we're thinking, and by the way, these are personality models, different personality trait models, theories, but low neuroticism is ⁓ that, you know, dimension has been defined as somebody kind of ⁓ not overly essentially emotionally stable.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

There's a stability and a mental flexibility and a willingness to kind of roll with the punches, not get bent over out of shape over things. I am not low in neuroticism. I feel like on all three of these, it's like, but yeah, somebody pretty flexible. And then the third is one that's very surprising to people, which is moderate adventurousness.

Yeah, it was like you and me are in trouble like cuz cuz Okay.

And the reason for that is high adventurousness is associated with higher levels of infidelity. But even if there's not infidelity, yeah, restlessness. So I actually am very high in adventurousness. I need new projects, new interests. I've always been like that. My mind kind of needs, I just have a gazillion side quests. Some of that is ADD, some of that is intellectual curiosity. It's just, I'm hungry for exciting new things. That can be lonely for Ty, I know that.

Yeah. restlessness. Yeah.

You can make concerted efforts to make up for that and to be a very loving, committed partner. But these are just personality traits. kind of, you know, how we're bred, how we're born. ⁓ And you will be happier if you get somebody who is, you know, not low in adventurousness where they're not interested in anything, but someone who really just loves stability and home and knows what's important in life.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is the and he he kind of checks all three boxes.

Yeah, it's amazing.

⁓ yeah. Why does he love you?

I don't know, you'd have to ask him. I mean...

Well, I tried, but you didn't accept my invitation to have the two of you come on together, so.

He will actually he was willing to. ⁓ You know he should. You want me to call him real quick and ask him.

Well, we'll do it in the future, or maybe we'll do it next time.

Okay, I can ask him.

You don't know, doesn't he tell you?

He does, but it's like in one ear and out the other. ⁓ I know that he thinks...

Okay, he probably loves you because you're such a good listener All right, listen, I don't need to ask that question. I want to ask this question. I had a student, ⁓ say this to me the other day and I thought, ⁓ Shannon will have something to say about that. But she introduced herself, cause people were letting me know like kind of what their family situation was. And she said, we're childless by choice. That's you too. Yeah. What is, what, what is that? And where did that come from for the two of you? Like, how did you find that together?

Sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You ask the best questions, Conscientious, conscientious. Yep. ⁓ Okay, so I, know, even when I was little, I kind of knew I didn't want kids. It was just.

That's my job. Yeah. Hmm. Well, because you just finished telling us how you had like 15 brothers and sisters and like you came from this giant family.

Yeah, I mean, and I love my sisters. I mean, I love them. In fact, if I still see a little baby, I was just telling Ty we saw a little baby this weekend, like baby. And the sounds the baby was making took me right back in time. was like, every year there was that sound again in my life. Like I, it just reminds me of my baby sisters. So I understand a component. When I think of the love, must be like to have a child. I'm the oldest. I have an older half sister. I'm the oldest of the group that was in our home.

You, did you tell us, are you the oldest? Okay. Okay. Okay.

⁓ And I loved my sisters with such an intensity that sometimes the way I can imagine it must feel like to be a parent, it makes me think of that. Like where I would die for them, the idea of them suffering hurts me, like makes me sick. ⁓ The idea of anything happening to them still to this day is, let's not even talk, it just, it makes me sick.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I can see it,

not even sick, like I feel like I might pass out, it's so upsetting. But I love my little baby sisters. And ⁓ I think I always, I mean, I wanted to be an astronaut so bad when I was a kid that I used to wear a space outfit ⁓ to school a lot. I actually had like the blue jumpsuit and I was actually really obsessed with it. Like I would imagine takeoff while I was going to sleep at night, because I was very worried about

Yeah. I love it. I love that.

that part of space program, a space program and space flight, and I knew I needed to mentally prepare if I was gonna be ready for training and applications because I was afraid of roller coasters. So that was all that was on my mind. And honestly, the idea of like having a child never got me enthused. It was that simple. Like when you talk about being a grownup, kids not enthused, space travel, amazing. ⁓ And then,

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you just knew that.

That kind of just, it continued in that sort of same relative way every phase of my life. Kids not enthused, doctoral program enthused, ⁓ research in Peru enthused. And then I met Ty and he didn't have children. He lost his brother when he was 14 years old. His older brother who was two years older died in a car accident. And he saw his mother go through that kind of traumatic grief. And she had been a single mom raising them, so it had just been them. And ⁓ I think it really, I mean, it absolutely changed the course of his life. And he's very open and honest about, like, he does realize that some of his initial fears of having children or having a family of his own were fear-based, very much avoidant of loss, avoidant of loss. But also, ⁓ there was another part of it that was very reasonable. and reasoned and that he did have a lot of interest in travel and cultures. He grew up in Australia and Borneo and then his family moved to Texas when his mother remarried when he was a teenager. But he had been, know, he used to get his braces adjusted in Singapore. He was just very interested in traveling and being a part of the world. he was single for a very long time. He's a very intentional guy. I know that when he was like hot and bartending and managing bars a lot in his 20s, 30s, he used to be very transparent with women. Like if we sleep together, I need you to understand that I'm not, he was always very clear and honest. He is honest to a fault. Like if he gets pulled over and he's had a beer, he is going to volunteer that information to the cop. It drives me crazy. Anyway, honest to a fault, very humble. And he would talk like that to women like,

Mm. Mm.

I'm not interested in relationship. And of course, like no one's been more attracted to that. Like he just, yeah. So, exactly. And this upfront guy who's being so straightforward and that's just kind of how he is. So he, you know, he was never passive about anything. He's always very intentional about what he wants, make sure that everybody's on board. So he never really gotten self into any situations that were problematic or like,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna win this. I'm gonna convert him. I'm gonna make him. Yeah. Yeah.

didn't work and then when we met, I was actually in the process of freezing my eggs. I was 35, again, science, I love science. You tell me a scientific way to optimize dating and love, I'll do it. You tell me that you have a way to help me have the option to get pregnant if I want to and it doesn't have to be limited by age, I'll do it. So I did that and again, it was to me just a very rational thing.

Yeah.

Like, why wouldn't I if that option exists? And at the time, my incredible Hawaii insurance covered that. I wish that that were more common. ⁓ But yeah, and then we've just never used them. It's all simple.

Yeah. Um, I'm going to tell you something that's going to make you sad. Rebecca and I, when we got together, we, we obviously we have two children, but we were very clear that we did not want dogs. Like it was actually a, it was actually a vetting criteria. think if either one of us had said, my God, I love dogs. can't wait to have dogs. We would have broken up like within the first couple of weeks. I don't know. I'm just sort of, I, the way I explained it to people.

Why? what a hill to die on

I just don't have the gene to be honest. I literally do not, I don't understand people who love dogs. don't, I don't get it. I ⁓ I don't, I'm not drawn to them in any way. I don't appreciate their value. It's and I, and I'm not anti dog. I just don't, I just don't get it. So I love that you, I love that the

Yeah. Fair. I was just about to say, have you ever had a dog? And yeah.

My parents did. And it was my dad's dog. It was my mom's dog and my brother's dog. But it was not my dog. It just was a, they were just dogs that lived in our house. And I just never connected to them. And there might be like a family of origin story there to think about, but I, I don't really know. But, yeah, yeah. I want to ask you one more question before we have to shut it down for the day. But ⁓ you've never wanted to be a parent, but here you are. I know you're having to kind of become the parent for your own parent. Like

Okay, right. There might be. There might be. Even the breed makes a difference.

What is that like for you? to, and I know it's not a one-to-one, but like it's the life cycle, right? Where suddenly we become their caregivers. You've been on that journey for a season. How do you make sense of that?

yeah. I love caring for my dad. Yeah. That taps into the same thing in me that loves being a therapist. Honestly, so helping my dad, and look, he's at a facility, so it's not like I'm caring for him 24-7. That's a different story. That is a life-altering, really difficult journey. yeah, but I'm there every week, and I really, ⁓

But you've gotten there. No, no, no, sorry. What I mean is like he wasn't always at a facility. You had, you were much more high touch there for a while. Okay.

No. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I really like How do I explain this? There is something so special about being able to help him in a way that's caring and helps him feel safe. For instance, something as simple as going to the bathroom. ⁓ I really love being the one to do it. There's something that feels a little bit kind of, I don't want to make this too fluffy, but kind of sacred in that I know that I have an ability. through my training and my experience to recognize and honor people's dignity and humanity. And my dad did that too. He was an incredible physician, really beloved, really altruistic, dedicated his life to researching how to minimize error in patient care, how to make medical culture less backbiting and more accepting of personal responsibility, people not being so fearful, feeling like they need to hide things or deny responsibility. so that patient care could be safer. ⁓ He really made his patients feel like people. I now know he didn't have to come home and call all his patients the night before surgery. He did that. And he did it every night. And he'd stand there in the kitchen and make call after call and he'd talk to them as long as they needed. ⁓ I now understand what that is. When you really care about the person, it's not a job. It was just an ethic. And so when I am there with him and have the ability to, you know, and even anticipate like sitting down for him is really scary. Depth perception is different. ⁓ just those, love being able to learn about dementia, anticipate some of his needs, understand what some of his experience might be, and then actively support him in a way that I know even if he can't express it. is helping him feel safer and more comfortable. I love being able to do that for him. And it's actually, I'm sadder when I'm away from him. I know that for a lot of people, it's like seeing their parent in that state is harder or more painful. actually, because this is, again, like I love science, knowledge is power. When I see him, because I understand the disease, I can understand more about his experience. I really love being with him and being able to work. with where he is.

Yeah, that's really cool. I've really admired your commitment to him almost every time I text you, you're like, sorry, I've been taking care of my dad. I've been working on my dad. I've been with my dad or we've been celebrating with my dad. And I just, think there's so much integrity and dignity in that. It's really cool to observe. So.

Thank you, friend. I love them.

Hey, thanks for hanging out with me. ⁓

Thanks for hanging out with me. This is so fun.

Yeah, we'll do it again here pretty soon, but I want to, yeah, and if we get to talk to Ty, great. If we don't, that's fine too. But I, yeah, I just appreciate you and that you make me smarter.

Sounds good. Okay. I appreciate you. Same reason. And you make me better.