When the Therapist Comes Home: Marriage, ADHD, and the Work Behind the Work w/Eli & Ariella

Well. Good morning. Is it morning where you are? Where are you?

We're in Las Vegas. It's morning at 10:00, so we've been up since six, five, 35, 15. So basically the second day.

What do you what do you do when you wake up? Why do you wake up at 530 6:00? What happens next.

For me in the summer months? I've just with the light, I don't know, my body wakes me up, and then I take my dog for a walk because in Vegas, it's just too hot to go during the day. So it's like, nice and shady. It's still 79 degrees or 80 already by 545. So I took my dog for a walk, and then we were waking up our kids and getting the day going by 630. So 630 to 730 is rush breakfast, getting dressed, lunches, tantrums, you.

Know, and.

School drop off.

Who's throwing the tantrums in your house?

Man? I'm doing it. I'm having the tantrums.

What is that about.

The me having the tantrums?

Yeah.

I'm just joking. Well, it depends on the day, but too much noise. This morning our freezer was beeping because it wasn't sealed right and the fridge was making noise. And the kids are doing this? No, but today the tantrum was our son not wanting.

Couldn't find the toy.

Wanted the toy school.

So that's awesome. Yeah, I think it's amazing how kids, like can just feel their thing. They just feel it out loud and that's just how it goes. And you never kind of unclear what it is that's going on inside their brains.

Oh yeah. I know we have kids having tantrums over what color cup they want, and we give them the wrong thing, or they ask for the food. We give them the food they ask for, and they really wanted something else, but.

They cut it up. Before they wanted to do it themselves.

You know, that's always the fun one. So I put it back together. It's like, I can't I can't glue it. You can't eat glue. Well, you could, but.

Wouldn't recommend.

Not the best.

What? Who are your kids? How old are your kids and what have you got?

We've got seven to be seven year old as of Sunday named Ricky. She's a girl. And then we have a Sunday Max, who's four and a quarter. He will specify the quarter.

Yeah, we're on the way, baby. Baby. Snickerdoodle.

Did you tell me, did you. Do you know if it's a boy or girl?

Yeah. We're just not telling anyone.

Okay. Right on. But it's in your. Do you. In two weeks.

In about seven weeks.

How are you feeling overall?

Pretty good. Definitely getting a little bit more like winded. Or there's not enough room for my belly to wash dishes in the sink these days. So you might be you might be on on dish duty from.

Now on. I'll do it.

You know, last night was a bit of a struggle trying to sink.

But she's feeling pregnant.

Yeah, but overall, I can't, I can't complain. I'm feeling pretty good.

Right on. Tell me about the dude therapist. Where did that come from for you?

I came from a late night of two friends talking about if I had a podcast, what would you call it? And he said, well, you are a dude. And I went, okay, so I'm a dude who's a therapist. It also came out of boredom during Covid, like we were in LA for a couple of months living with my in-laws, and I was working on New York hours. So I was starting at 5:00 in the morning and like 1 or 2:00 in the afternoon, and that had nothing to do for 3 to 4 hours, five hours in the afternoon. And I hate writing, even though now I'm an author of a book, but I still hate writing, and I'd rather speak and rant and yell into a microphone and talk. So I was like, hey, let's start a podcast. And so it's been about, I think about six seasons right now.

Cool. And what's it like being married to the dude therapist?

It's it's a he takes me for an interesting ride. We have a his sticker on our car. So everyone's always like, are you the dude therapist? And I'm like, no, that's my husband. I am not a dude.

In the couple of months ago.

But.

One of my ex clients.

Oh yes. I had someone approach me in a grocery store parking lot and I like, you know, you get all nervous when someone just walking up to you and you don't know them. Sure. And he was like, I think your husband. Are you like, are you the dude therapist? Are you married? I'm like, that's my husband. And he said he was he was my therapist. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's so nice. Or actually, I was at the library, so it was even more random. But yeah. So I guess I'm, you know, famous.

Associated, not.

In my same adjacent favorite.

Thing as people think. I get asked a lot. Well, you're the Do therapist and you have a book on on marriage and relationships. And a couple weeks ago my client said, but how your marriage. It depends on the day. Like today was a good day. Like three days ago, I might have made my wife cry like seven times, but like like I'm not perfect. So it's funny that everyone likes sees the dude therapist podcast or the book or the therapy things, and they all of a sudden always ask her or wonder like, what's the behind the scenes? It's normal. That's what the behind the scenes, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

There's regular issues and struggles like anyone else. But it isn't bad is. Yeah.

I always tell people I don't have a perfect marriage, but I don't have any excuses either.

My joke is that I. I know everything about your marriage, but nothing about mine.

Oh. Right on. Well, what makes a good day for you guys? Like, what's when you say it depends on the day. What makes a good day for for your marriage?

Sure. Yeah. I think a good day for, for me within the relationship is being mindful of her and aware of the context that she's dealing with the day. So, you know, she had a rough night sleeping because of the pregnancy or, you know, kids waking up or our dog being annoying or anything, or me snoring too loud, whatever it might be that I have that context and I take that into account for kindness and compassion. I think it means recovering well when we do, like, step on each other's toes or butt heads a little bit, and not letting it get to the next level or the or the intensity. And for me, it's being better for myself. A taking account ability of the dysregulation. With my ADHD, I sometimes get dysregulated with my emotions a little bit quicker or faster, or impulsive in those kind of ways, when it's just a lot of noise and a lot of stress.

So to me, kind of being proactive to help keep that under control so that we can exist in a healthier space.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. I think a lot of where on our good days, what works really well is when we're communicating, like anybody would say, communication is so important in a marriage. So I would say when we're kind of like checking in with each other, what do you need out of today? What do you need to get done? I have this time. What what needs to be done around the house? What can I help with just so that, again, you know, he tries to check in with me because often the women we know sometimes can carry that mental load. And he's very good about saying like offload some of that to me. Like, what are some things that you need taken care of.

And this way and then we start to get into a groove with that. But I would say sometimes our areas of struggles are again, those like morning hours, those afternoon hours when the kids are home, either again in the morning when we're getting them ready, or in the afternoon when we're trying to get dinner, bathtime, homework, you know, showering, reading time, etc. and it's kind of like just being on and figuring out, like, you know, if he wants to watch a sports game saying like, hey, I really would like to do this, and I have to be honest with myself and say, do I have the capacity to handle that?

Can I give you that time? Because I know it is important to you and I don't just kind of like write that off as like, oh, sports are dumb. It's like, no, that is something that's important to him. And if I can make that happen, I'd love to. But if I really can, if I feel stretch, I also have to be honest with him and say, you know, I don't have the capacity today. And just really, again, be honest and say, I need your help today. I need that back up.

Yes, I think we do with each other as like we check like the engine light or the tank where we go the tank at, like where you are on like an energy level. Because one day watching the Golden Knights is not a problem. Or watching the Knicks last night wasn't a problem, but another night. Not that it's a problem, it's just I need your help because I'm not functioning at a capacity right now that I can't do it alone. And it's just like that constant check in or that just it's not asking for permission because she controls my life. It's asking mission. Because we're a unit, we have to work well together. So just because I want to do something doesn't mean it gets to do. I get to do it just because I want it. I'm not a child, so it's more of that, hey, is this good?

Is this a good timing? If it's not, I need to be respectful because she's not doing it to be controlling or mean. She's doing it because she's being honest and saying, I can't. I need your help.

How long have you been married?

11 years in August. Together for about 12.

Did you do anything specific? Did you, did you? Is this, like, inherent for you, or did you learn it? Did you take a class? Did you get therapy yourselves? Did you have some kind? How did you decide or how did you come into this version of interacting with one another on behalf of like, Jason? Good days.

I think a lot of arguments and like mess ups and and learning what we need from each other and just really being willing to accept our, our challenges and our baggage and our things and communicate them and be really, you know, a team effort to work on them. I know I go to therapy now. You've been on and off in therapy over the years, you know, reading a lot of books, suggesting things and not going, yeah, oh my gosh, you're so annoying. Why do you suggest another book and or podcast or things like that? But it's also just we're very we're very good together. It's we're very good team mentality.

Yeah. I think, you know, all of these books behind us, they're all Lee's collection of therapy books.

And I have a problem.

Can you definitely has read a lot of them because he wants to not only be a great husband and father, but also a good therapist, where he can give tools for any type of presentation that comes into his office. And then for me, I've read a handful. I read a few before we got married, a few during our relationship. I read two as of the last week because we did have, you know, one fight where it was kind of like there's something that's just like, I need to handle or I need to figure out some tools to help me work through. But I think for the most part, when we have those kind of butthead moments, we really like open ourselves up to, you know, we're very vulnerable with each other and kind of share what what wrong?

What am I feeling? What, what hurt my feelings in this moment? What do I need to be better for next time? That doesn't happen. And also kind of like humbling ourselves in those moments of like, you know, I can take ownership of what I did wrong. I think both of us do. Well, you know, sometimes not right in the beginning of an argument, but by the end, you know, each of us taking accountability for what role we played in one of those blow ups. And I think that just, you know, humility and giving each other the benefit of the doubt also has been key of like, you know, we could take accountability. We know we're not perfect. I know you may have been going through things, and now I could see that given a little bit of context and like, again, you know, taking those takeaways like really trying to sum up what are our takeaways of what we could do better next time.

And I think each time we honestly feel closer when we have these arguments, and then the rest of the week often feels so much better.

Get it off our chest. Yeah. I also think it's it's like, setting the tone from from learning from our past and learning from our experiences and really kind of it's an effort. It's a daily effort, daily choice to make that, to make that work. And it's not a not an easy thing though.

Yeah. Well, I think you might have accidentally coined a brand new phrase, which is you called them butthead moments. And maybe it's actually when you're you're in butthead moments, like.

You're being a butthead and your buddy.

Yeah, we're do you can you tell us about your fight? Do you. Is that is that something you can do? This one that caused sent you to two books. What happened?

I don't even remember why it started. It was more of just the the argument.

Got the thing, though. Does that happen all.

The time? I remember.

I don't even remember what the fight was. Yeah.

Like.

I.

Don't.

Even know.

It would take me a few minutes to like, recall, I think.

I think some of the things were more of just the patterns that I fall into that I need to work on, and just calling each calling each other out with like a growth mentality. Not just like dumping on someone and saying, you suck, you're the worst. Yeah, but more of like, hey, I keep noticing this thing and it keeps getting in the way of having a successful conversation, whether it's being stuck on certain mindsets or needing things to be done a certain way, or having certain. I call it like box mentalities, like being in a certain box or having a certain label of things and like, okay, so you have ownership over that. Are there ways that I can help you work through that? Not as a therapist, as your husband. And so how those things hurt me, and it's just it's a calling out with love. It's not a pointing fingers to put someone down. I forgot what it was really started.

I can remember a little bit of it. I think what I was struggling with was sometimes if he would express that he was upset about something and I would be like, I'm so sorry I messed up. I did something wrong. He would he would still potentially be a little bit heated or keep going just to kind of like fully express the feeling because he's a very passionate, emotional guy. And for me, I'm actually more of like the rational, logical of like, I want this to be over. I don't like conflict. That comes from a lot of my background growing up of like, you know, some chaos, some big feelings, big emotions. I don't handle that very well. For me, I'm like the peacemaker. I'm the middle child. Like, I just like things to be calm.

That helps regulate my nervous system. So for me, it's kind of like, I, I honestly, I'm usually pretty good at saying, like, I messed up. I'm sorry, I won't do that. But it's honestly sometimes, like, I just want to shut it down as quickly as possible versus giving him the space to kind of like fully express how something made him feel. So sometimes I can get caught up in like, why? Why didn't that work? Like, I apologize, I said I was wrong, I figure out what could what I could do better next time. Like, why isn't this over? Why can't we just move on like, I. I don't like this. I don't like the conflict. I don't like the bad feelings.

And again, from his perspective, he's not done communicating how something felt. And I need to give him a little bit of that space for that. So sometimes, like when it doesn't work, I get like all, you know, emotional or I like start to shut down because I'm like, it should have worked. I followed the formula. Why is it working? But, you know, we're different people and how we respond or how we take accountability and how, again, how we could feel like, okay, I'm done. I'm ready to move on. He was he's not ready for that yet, but I'm ready for it to be over. And so it was just kind of like learning that communication. Learning. You know, when he's expressing something, it might not just be the like one sentence, it might be a full like, this is how I'm really feeling and I need to give him the space for that. So that kind of.

Yeah. And my and my ownership of it was learning how to do that smarter and better for her to be able to stay there and be there with it versus just, you know, just word vomiting or, you know, and it doesn't mean that I can't express myself. It doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to. It means that I just have to do it smarter so that she can support me. So that was like my my side of it was I kind of kept going and was more intense, maybe that she could handle versus, hey, like bring it down to this level and I can, I, can I, can I and I can work on myself to come here and we can meet each other versus you up here and me down here. And we're not able to compute and work through those things and not able to, you know, mesh in a better way.

Yeah. Yeah. I can see how you would have a hard time sometimes remembering how arguments start. I mean, that's me too. I'm like, I don't know how this started. I don't even know what it was about. Do you have a sense for yourselves of how your arguments end? How do they end for the two of you?

Usually pretty. It depends on the argument, like if we need to wrap it up that day or not, how we're feeling, how tired we are, or how overwhelmed they might have been. The argument and it's okay to go to bed frustrated and annoyed if we need that, so that the morning we can do it smarter. You know, I don't know. My grandmother, who turned 99 in a couple of weeks, told me at our wedding, like, don't go to bed angry. That's like a classic thing, right? But sometimes you need to because your brain isn't functioning at its capacity to be able to handle the argument.

Yeah, you're speaking my language, I think don't go to bed angry is among the worst marriage advice.

I don't think it has ever worked for us.

I think it works for anyone going harder in the paint and pushing even further and going more aggressive when you're when you're tired and you're overwhelmed and your brain is just glitching and not at its best. Probably not the best communication conversation skills are, you know, kicking in. So depending on the argument. But we like to wrap it up with like, okay, so what was the takeaway? What was the summary. How did you not let's rehash it and go through every point. But what's the wrapping it up? What's the end result. What are we going to do now? What are we going to do next? What are we going to do for each other? How are you feeling right now? Kind of more of that caring for each other and making sure that we're, you know, keeping a like an eye out for what the things are.

Yeah. We talked a little bit about what makes a good day and maybe we've already covered this, but do you have a sense for yourselves of what makes a bad day, the day that you make or cry seven times in a row? Or. I think that's the way. Yeah. Like me. What are the bad days have in common?

It's it's a.

Overstimulation.

Over simulation and kind of nagging or poking or prodding or being like nippy, like, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, it was like I was I was in the middle of something. I was doing this. I had a long day. I had a Kleiner, fortunately, that was struggling with suicidal thoughts, and it was just a really rough session. Yeah. So I just didn't express, hey, I'm not in a good headspace. And she said, can you take care of something? And I snapped at her and said, like, why you bother? Whatever, you know, thing like, oh, here's where I'm just offing and puffing. And that puts her in a bad headspace because she all she's going. I was like, hey, I just I'm asking if you can do the dinner that you know, I want to do.

And then I was like, but you, you know, you could have asked me earlier and like, I just start. I'm like poking and prodding and being annoying and and frustrating and just her rough. And I need a ten, 15 minute cool off to walk away and just go, hey, my bad. You know, reset. We're good. That's where my end what I. Cause if there is a really bad day, it's usually because of those patterns and things. Yeah, probably.

Yeah I would say like either like we're just not on the same page. Like a lack of communication, which for me sometimes like I can, you know, just as a mom, I think, or even as parents, like, I don't want to just make it about the mom, but like, I can have a million things on my head, but sometimes it'll frustrate him if I didn't, like, tell him, we have plans for this. Someone invited us here and my mom said she was coming over and not again, fully communicating. He'll be like, why are you surprising me with that? Especially again in this situation, was kind of like he had asked me like, what? What needs to get done? And I didn't mention that I had an idea for dinner, which is, you know, there are certain meals that he makes versus what I make. And I was like, okay, I took the meat out or something. Can you make burgers or.

Tacos.

Which are very easy. But he was so thrown off because he had asked me, what can I get done during the day? And I didn't fully think like, oh, also dinner because I was in the middle of my workday, but that, like kind of frazzled him on a day he was already frazzled. So I think my my area where like, I'll start to get things going is when I'm like, have things in my head and I don't fully release them on paper or on decks or speaking to him. But I think the combination of the two is really when we.

That's when the fun happens.

When the fun happens, when the learning opportunities are endless.

Yeah, yeah. What books did you read after you said I read two last week? What did you read?

So I read Super Communicators by Charles Duhigg. Okay. And the other one, Inherited Anxiety.

By Nicole Thaxton.

Yeah.

And what what do Charles doing and Nicole Thaxton have to say to you about the way that you show up in your relationship?

So I would say with the Charles Duhigg one, one thing was just kind of like the matching principle was just kind of like making sure that when you're in a situation with somebody that you're matching what they're coming to kind of share. So again, sometimes, like if he's communicating something that upset him, he is not necessarily looking for the solver solution of like, I want an apology and then we're good sometimes.

Again, it is just kind of like the venting and I need to be present and be like not just looking for the automatic fix, but just like validating and letting him share and just like sitting perhaps at the uncomfortable feeling and then moving on to the next piece, which is again, the apology I also just share with the with the other book was, you know, with some of my past, again, just kind of trying to understand why I have a hard time with some of that uncomfortable feelings.

This is an inherited anxiety. Yeah. You're talking about.

Inheriting like the stress, the chaos of just like, not wanting to deal with it. Like I just don't like it. And so it was just kind of like hearing, you know, about some of the tips, you know, to handle that. And again, just not taking the blame for everything or being like, again, it's my job to fix the room, assess, you know, gauge the temperature and try to bring it down like, that's not I can't control that. And I have to release some of that. And again, sit with that uncomfortable feeling sometimes.

Yeah. And I know like I've read the Charles doing book and I know I put some of the things of his in my book on some of the communication chapters. Like his, his book is is very wonderful, foundational book for just general communication, like the matching principle or even having the conversation of what is this conversation about is logistics. Is this an emotional conversation? Is it we're venting about social things or our friends like having that question like, hey, what do you need for me from this conversation? Or what's the topic of discussion? Yes, it sounds very sterile and kind of weird to do that, but in the.

End it's so.

Powerful it helps like set the tone in your brain what you're coming into so that, yeah, you could be talking about logistics, but I'm thinking emotionally. I'm thinking from an emotional standpoint and we're kind of missing each other. So if we kind of set the tone a little bit better, oh, you're just talking about what we're doing this week on schedule, not anything else. Oh yeah, I can be on that. I'm not I don't have time or a brain power for the emotional part. But if you're caught off guard and think it's one versus the other, it can really mess things up and really cause cause like a really massive fight or miscommunication because we're just not getting on the same page or getting on the same wavelength by just asking those questions. And it's a wonderful he does a wonderful job with his books and is great.

Yeah. And I think on that note, something that like he's communicated to me that, you know, sometimes, like for me, again, my automatic instinct when I'm sensing that he's stressed, overwhelmed again, knowing that he has ADHD. My like I just like take on every rule. So I'm like, you go relaxed. I've got this so that he's not more overstimulated, but he's like, sometimes you could just ask me approach from curiosity of like, what happened in your day? Or like, I'm sensing that you're, that you're a little bit tense, like, are you okay? Are you good? Because like, sometimes I just want you to be curious and ask me. And that can sometimes help me just like release versus just like, you know, only leave it.

To me. Me in the closet.

Hide you in the closet and be like, go away, you know, so we can all be good. It's like, you know, ask me and be there to support me. And I've had to learn, like, you know, in terms of controlling the room, it's not just about like, again, push him away and hide him, but also again, like, be there for him and support him so that he can calm down and he can be involved. So that's also been a big learning lesson of like, just like the curiosity asking questions. Yeah.

Let me ask you about your ADHD people. I know people are going to be listening and their ears are going to perk up and they go, oh, how do they do that? Like, do you do the two of you have a fully formed or a clear theory about how ADHD affects a marriage or your marriage? Like how do you how do you manage that?

Yeah, I think, you know, I've been battling HD since I was like seven. Yeah. So, you know.

Is that how you think of it battling.

Yeah, it depends on the day. It's a adventure, you know?

I mean, we talk about that a lot with cancer. We'll say I'm fighting cancer. I'm battling cancer. We don't usually hear that language with other things.

Like it depends on the day. Some days it's a battle and some days it's an adventure and journey and a good thing. Like my creativity, my wackiness, my silliness, my energy, like is it's who I am. But it's because of my PhD that like, you know, I can do ridiculous voices and and things with the kids and the living daylights out of my wife because of that. And, you know, but with the, the, the negatives, the struggle points.

Yeah.

It's a learning process because before we had kids, yeah, some of the stuff was maybe spacing out or distracted and not taking care of tasks when being asked or just forgetting things. Oh, oh, you were supposed to. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I was, you know, somewhere else. And then with kids, I actually was off medication when he first got married and got back on medication when we had kids, because I felt fractured and different places. And it depends on the day, but to me, it's over communicating my needs for me. So it's like, hey, like we're having friends over for the weekend and we know that their kids are screaming and yelling and a lot. And we go, okay, what's the game plan? Okay, so if you get too much, if it gets too much for you, just let me know.

Go upstairs and reset. You know, or hide or take the time you need or just, hey, I need 15, 20 minutes just to reset or to go. It's just that constant communication. And sometimes it's a battle, whether it's impulsivity or how I react. But it's that the fact that she knows gives her the context and awareness to either give me the benefit of doubt or grace or kindness. It doesn't mean it's fun, and it doesn't mean that it's a good thing. It just means, okay, I'm not the I didn't do anything wrong. Ellie is just having a rough headspace and then he will go do his thing, come back, we'll talk about it. We'll we'll have a better game plan. She even coined the term for for the flash mode thing.

But sometimes when I get upset or I get overwhelmed, I'll be going so fast with my mindset, like the flash that I'm not paying attention to other things or taking her into account. And I'm just going and going and going and going, going with my expression. So sometimes we came with a like a tag line. She goes, hey, flash mode, flash mode. Like I'm getting a little to write.

The superhero.

Yeah. Like I'm going so fast that everything's a blur. Yeah. So it's like, hey, flash mode. She calls me out and I go, okay, okay. And I have to, like, reel it in, take a little bit more control, take a breath, go for a few seconds into another room and then come back in. But that's like the accountability that we have in each other that it's just everyone's got their stuff. So as long as we are being honest about it with the other person, about what it means, how is this day? How is that day? What what triggers it or not, whether it's ADHD, whether it's, you know, any baggage that people have. I think it's just a wonderful thing to have someone in your corner and the other person's job is to be constantly curious to like, okay, so when we didn't have kids, but now we have kids, how is it going to show up?

What is the worst day sound like? What's your worst nightmare with that and how to handle it going forward?

Do you have the thing that I hear about a lot, which is that ADHD presents this kind of parent child dynamic where like you maybe feeling like you have to carry the emotional labor or not the emotional, but like the tactical labor inside the home. And it's like another kid dealing with the ADHD thing. Or have you mitigated that? Have you found ways around that? Or has it just not really been a part of the feature of your particular expression?

Yeah. I would say. There's definitely a lot, a lot of I don't feel like he's an extra kid because he's very helpful around the house. And I would say again, on a good day where we can communicate, that's great. But I would say again, like, there is kind of that extra component, which I would say it is often a battle in our marriage of like him again, just communicating those needs. Because again, once he gets overstimulated, then again the environment starts to get a little bit more tense. There's more likely to be, you know, yelling with kids or raising voices where again, like, we both know that's not good and we try to control it and we're very good about that repair. But it does sometimes feel like there's like that extra person to manage sometimes, but it's not all the time.

It's like on a very bad day, or like where he had a very overwhelming day at work or on a Saturday when we've had a lot of people over and the noise is just a lot more, you know, overwhelming for him. But I think as opposed to a child where you just never know what you're going to get when they come home from school or. Yeah, you know, or like one thing could set them off or like, they're missing a toy and you're like, you can't reason with them. I would say for the most part, with him, I can reason with him. We have good skills and tools where it's it's very different than being with a kid. So don't worry about that comparison.

Do you think that's the secret, that kind of no matter what it is to cultivate the tools or the skills or the communication piece, I don't really like communication as a topic in terms of whether it's couples who come into me and they're like, we want to work on communication, or even the way that you said, you know, communication is the secret because it's such a broad term, right? It's just so big. It contains so much. Yeah. But if you were to drill it in and say, yes, communication is the key. But specifically it's this I think, is there.

A yeah, I think for me it's the, the honesty. It's the honesty accountability of the communication. Okay.

And it just kind of frequent check ins, I think just so that there's always this.

Open consistency. Yeah.

It's not about how you're saying it. It's not. Yes. Tone matters and all that. And you can go, you know, for hours on on the idea of communication. It's not the fact that it has to be perfect and not the I versus the Wii statements. And those are all nice and wonderful and ideal and great and good for you. But I think in general, it's the consistency, the honesty and the intentionality that you do with the, hey, I'm going to check in with you because I care, not because I have to or I'm forced to. I'm going to make sure you're good. I'm going to keep, you know, keep myself honest and you honest by talking and being real with each other and just don't like when we were dating, you know, we talked all the time.

I just saw some stupid, silly video on TikTok or someone's like, yeah, when we were dating, we were on the phone for hours and now we're not. My husband's like, yeah, because we live with each other. We see each other every day. Why would I be calling you every day when I see you? But like, yeah, the effort of.

We stayed awake till 3 a.m. talking about whatever topic under the sun. I'm like, it's 8:00, babe. It's time to wrap it up. Whatever.

You're going to be going to bed. Yeah, no, but like that constant showing interest and curiosity. But I think it's that you don't have to stop trying just because you're married. Yeah. So it's that. Okay, maybe it's not the seven hours on the phone call and up till 3:00, but you're still trying to make those efforts. You're still trying that consistency and that checking in like you were dating because you're still trying to build something. It doesn't just end because you got married or have a long term relationship.

Yeah. But I think, again, just being vulnerable and open to like knowing that like if I share with him I'm having a really hard day, like especially again, as you're navigating being parents where like you don't have the same opportunity to just like go reset, go for a walk, you know, go to an exercise class, you know, veg in bed and scroll, whatever your method of self-care looks like. Again, with kids, it's just challenging to carve out that time. But being like knowing that I have a safe place to Charlotte, I'm really having a rough day. I really need this time. Like he'll be like, I've got you. Like, I could do this. And this way again, we don't get to the point where, like, I'm not getting what I need.

I had a really hard day. I don't have a chance to reset. And then it starts to, you know, overflow into me snapping at him, me snapping at the kids. And then just like the whole house is in total chaos. So that's where again, it's just not it's not just general communication, but it's like we both feel safe with each other to share when we're having a rough day, and we know that we've got each other's backs to, like, take over. Like it doesn't always have to be 5050. He can, you know, have a day where he's doing 80% of the parenting load. I'm doing 20 because I communicated that. That's what I need today.

Yeah. Tell me about your book, Ellie. Tell me, what's your book about? I mean, Tommy, give me the give me the elevator speech on your book.

Sure. It's right here. Why do we do? Navigating marriage and parenting. Yours was going to be called out to kill each other when you have kids. And the publishing company said, please, no killing in the title. Yeah, and a little too violent, but it's how to handle the relationship when it comes to the parenting side. It's not a parenting book. It's a relationship book through the lens of being a parent. But the skills in there are for any relationship. Whether you're thinking about having kids, about to have kids you're dating, and you want to have certain conversations of what it would be like, you know, to have healthier topics to talk about so you can build a healthy relationship.

And it's a lot of humor. It's a lot of honesty, a lot of stories, a lot of poop explosions. My publisher said, please stop with the poop explosions. I went, but that's parenting. There's poop and vomit all the time and crying. So it is just this realness. As someone who's going through it, a married man with kids who happens to be a therapist, talking right to you as your friend, going along hand in hand with that process. And, you know, I really it was a challenge to write the book. I don't like writing, like I said, but now that I've done it, I think I want to write another book. I don't know, I don't know nothing on the horizon yet, but you never know.

Have you read it?

Yes I did.

What did you think?

I loved it, I said. There were so many times where I was, like, laughing out loud, you know, getting teary eyed or emotional just the way he would speak about me.

Yeah. I was going to say, are you in it?

Yes. He definitely shared with me. So actually, one of my someone higher up at my company that I work for is also having a baby. And I was like, you know, I would love to kind of get my husband's book for you because he's having his first child. I was like, and you're going to lay a lot about me, and you.

Expect a client say, oh, you went through IVF. I went. How did you know that? They went about your book? I'm like, yeah, oh yeah. Now those people are going to know information. Yeah.

It was it was so fun to read just again, you know, again.

And also read on.

That the ADHD comes with like all of this creativity. I'm like, how did you remember all of these stories to like connect to this concept? Because, you know, as a I'm like the total I mean, obviously I am subjective with reading his book, but like I try to keep an objective lens of like non nonfiction can be hard to read sometimes. I'm a big reader. I love fiction and nonfiction can sometimes be dry and a little bit boring, but you might learn a lot, but it might be hard to kind of like sit down and get through. But I feel like he was so good about like putting in those personal anecdotes of either, you know, you know, anonymous clients or stuff that we dealt with. I'm like, oh, that was such a great way to highlight that.

And I ask. For ask permission. Before any story was in there, I didn't feel like, hey, we're going to just put our dirty laundry in this and just make each other. But yeah.

I just finished a manuscript and I, I have my wife is in it and so are my kids, but I realize my kids are now 19 and 23. They're adults. And I realize, oh, I definitely need to make sure that they're okay with these stories I told about them as nine year olds, as 14 year olds. Like, it's not the same. So that's a that's a hurdle I still have to clear, even though even though the manuscript is in, it's like, I hope I don't get in trouble with my kids, but it's it's wise to go ahead and check for permission. I just.

Done that. My kids were so excited. And like, even in the acknowledgments section, I write about each child. Yeah, like a nickname for them. And I and my daughter asked me not to have one of the nicknames that I call her, and I went, okay. And I took it out because there's like a big whoop, like, I don't need I need to be upset at me for a silly nickname that I call you between us, that you don't want to be in the book. Yeah, but yeah, it's it was a fun process. It was. It was exciting.

Cool cool cool cool. And what's next for you? You said you have another book. What's it going to be about?

Oh, I don't have another book. But if I would write a book, it would be about maybe a parenting book. I would do a book and flip it instead of a relationship book, a parenting book.

I don't have a parenting book in me, but I do have a parenting title in me, and you can have it if you want it, you can.

Go, I'm right here.

I was the perfect parent before I had kids.

Oh.

We've dealt with our fair share of people who gave.

Us a lot of a lot of.

Their parents, and. They were supposed to be humbled.

And they're.

Going to learn.

It's funny, my next door neighbor is a good friend of mine. And he said to me, goes, Ellie, I started reading your book and you said, you've never met a perfect parent. And he goes, I'm right here. Yeah, yeah. So we'll see.

We'll see.

A kid's company. He does. He has six. Yeah.

Six kids. Yeah, yeah. They're great. I love to practice.

You know. But what's on the horizon? Just the podcast is growing. Yeah. Starting to get speaking gigs and opportunities like that. Sponsorship. And that's the kind of trajectory to hopefully, you know, bring some wonderful opportunities for our family. That's really what it's all about is to create some, you know.

And still seeing.

And still seeing clients. Yeah, it's my practice is still fully open. So it's a it's a party every day.

Right now. If people are interested in learning more about what you're up to, where should I send them.

To my website, Ellingson LLCs. You can follow me on Instagram. Ellie Winston, Underscore, LLC. And this amazing human being is also a wonderful dietitian.

Yeah, but I don't have not active on Instagram anymore. My full time job is keeping me very busy and thank God I'm very happy there. So yeah, I'll be.

Sticking with it. Man, I would love to be in a world where I didn't have to care about being on Instagram anymore. That would be.

I know what I say it very often. I'm back on TikTok during videos my publisher asked me to. And why not? And when people ask me about starting off and doing things, I say, I'm just letting you know you're going to be a slave to it and you have to be in more control, because in the end, it's just a tool and do your best with it. But it sucks that you have to be on that space that has all the negative with the positive.

Very good. I tried it for a little bit and I could not do it.

So she.

Did a great job full time and I whenever I see him on his phone, that's where like I give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm like, I know you're probably I'm not assuming you're just scrolling. You're probably.

Usually not just sitting and playing games and scrolling. I'm usually like messaging for opportunities and following people and commenting on things just to, you know, get that next lead or something. And it's hard. It is hard.

Cool. Well, I'm glad to meet you both. Good luck with your pregnancy. Let you say seven more weeks. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, thanks for coming on to radio and sharing your story with us. I know people are going to be encouraged and we'll point people in the direction. Congratulations on the book. I do hope that you write another parenting book because, you know, kind of once you caught the bug, it's it's hard to put it down. But yeah, thanks. Thanks again. It's good to talk.

To you. Thank you for having us. And.