Building an Extraordinary Family Life with Greg and Rachel Denning

You guys have seven children?

Yeah.

Why? Do you have seven children?

Just happened that way, I guess.

We couldn't. We didn't know what was going on. Rachel keeps getting pregnant.

Yeah. Well, we adopted her first, actually. And then by the time she was four, we had three more kids, and we were like, wow, okay, I can get pregnant.

And that's when we started traveling. The world. And we just loved it, man. We love family life.

Yeah, yeah. We thought we were going to stop at four and then, I don't know, we just felt like there's more. And so we had three more.

And they ranged from when to end.

Our oldest right now is 23 and she's married and then our youngest is eight.

Okay. So the 23 is the is the guy that you adopted?

Yes.

And then you had 8 or 7. No. How many? Six.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

What's that like? I mean, we stopped at two. And I'm not. I'm. I'm actually just, like, sort of fascinated by what is the actual, experience of growing a family and then continue to grow a family attending. And then how do you know? How did you know you were dead?

I mean, it's weird. I know people talk about it, but it was just like a feeling, like I just knew I was done. When I got my sixth, I looked at her and I said, there's one more. And then I had the seventh, and I was like, okay, we're done. I don't know. Yeah.

It's it's interesting intuition. Yes.

But we love it. I mean, they're they're literally. It sounds cliche. They're best friends. We have such a good time. It's like having our own miniature little school. And it's just a lot of fun. We just have a really great time. And now our older kids of course our four oldest are 18, 20, 21 and 23. And I mean they're just like our best friends. We just have so much fun together.

Yeah.

So and they're adventuring right now. They just Serbia today they.

Were in Norway and then Sweden, and now they're in Serbia right now.

So that's awesome. Yeah. And it seems like that's your thing. You guys like adventure is your thing. How do you how do you know? Like how did you come to that together. How did did you, like, have to recruit one another into that or did it just did you get lucky and meet somebody who liked adventure the same as you or. No. It's a story of that.

We, both of us, started out like homebodies.

Yeah. Like, just happy to have a job and a little house. But we just read voraciously. And so reading exposes to new ideas I was trying.

You did have a couple of travel experiences, and I'd never had anything like, I know I'd never gone anywhere except like, Tijuana.

And I went to South America and Central America, and I said, we've got to do this as a family. It's so cool.

And so we just when we had the four kids somehow, like, we just got converted to this idea of like immersion, immersion and having them learn another language and yeah, reading books. There was some convincing for sure that went on. But it was like, let's do this, let's try it. Let's let's go have this international experience.

And the kids loved it and have always loved it. So that became our like our unique family dream.

Yeah. So what what have you learned. What do you what do you experience I mean I'm sure you, you must have like a collection.

Of like writing books man. Yeah. Both. Right. Looks because so many lessons. Yeah.

It's like it's like literally living lifetime and multiple lifetimes. Lifetimes of experience. Like, I've forgotten more than. I don't know, like it's crazy. I don't even know how to, like, put it into words of just so many experiences that just stack and stack and stack and stack. So it's fun when we're all together with the kids and we're, like, pulling up all these memories of like, oh, yeah, I remember that and that and that and that.

I might be trying too hard right now, but I want to float something that I talk to clients about and see what you think. There's a, there's a theory in like, relational anthropology that long term committed relationships are only supposed to last about three years. This comes from like origin of man, kind of when they were wandering around, survival of the fittest. Like she would ovulate and have sex with like 5 or 6 guys and the baby would come out, might look like him. So he would hang around for three years and then like, baby was fine, and then she's gonna have sex with 5 or 6 more guys and then maybe it looks like him again. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe.

But it was all about like, sustainability. And then this pattern, academics attract this sort of three year thing throughout history, you know, because about three years later, you know, you meet somebody and about three years later you get married, and about three years later you have a baby, and about three years later, you do you have this an awareness now with kind of all this experience and people. And we got 24 years in the bank. So you're like, it's like a it's like an eight, three year cycles for you. If you look at if you think about it this way, like do you have phases that you recognize and you can parse out in the midst of all this adventure? Is that a,

I would say yes. We kind of calm chapters. Okay. Yes. Yeah, I would also it's interesting because as you're talking, I think in a way we live on an accelerated timeline.

Okay.

Okay. We and he says a lot to our coaching clients. Like we collapse time with intensity.

Okay.

And I feel like we've probably slowed down a little bit. But it used to be like every year and a half, there was either a new baby or a move or something like, we just really.

We wanted to squeeze the juice out of life.

Yeah, we just had this real ambitious energy that it was definitely these cycles in these chapters, but it was almost anywhere from a year and a half to three years, you know? Yeah, I can see that. Yeah.

Tell me about a couple chapters. Like, do you have a couple of especially notable, experiences or chapters that you say kind of would capture you guys, whether it's the ups or the downs?

Yeah, there's definitely been huge downs and major ups. Of course.

I think one of the biggest ones, maybe the most important ones, when we just as we were reading so much together, we were introduced to new ideas and we came from very, when we came from poor families and, you know, just living in the little neighborhood doing what everybody else is doing. And so unconventional ideas were like this totally foreign alien thing to us. I knew I was being uncomfortable by it, and she would read something until I'm like, not well, what are you talking about? That's crazy. People don't do that because I didn't know anybody who did that. So one of our one of the coolest chapters, I think it most important is we finally wrestled our way to this point of like, let's, let's live unconventional.

Like some.

Kind of be nonconformist. Let's question like the big systemic things us let's question societal expectations. And why not kind of draft and design our own unique, extraordinary, healthy life. And then stepping into that was terrifying. We were terrified and we were so excited. We tell people about it and they're like, you're crazy. What are you doing? Don't you? Them? I thought people would be as excited for us and we thought they would want to join, but they're like, oh, don't do that. And so we felt like this separation from tradition and yeah, convention.

Was there a moment or a book or like a Pandora's box that did that to you? Like how did you how did you first wake up to that notion coming from where you came from?

There was a passion. Yeah, there definitely was for there. For me at least. There was this book that I found at like a second hand store. I love it, and it was just something, some it was like the most boring book, but it was like, create your financial life or something. And to me it was like, so mind blowing. Like what? Because I just thought, oh, rich people were born rich and poor people being poor and there's nothing you can do. And so that was mind blowing. That really kind of helped me think, well, wait a second, you mean like people can design their life? They can, like, make it what they want it to be, really? And then when I was pregnant with my fourth, well, that helped us to start investing in real estate and stock market.

And so, you know, we were doing better. And then when I was pregnant with my fourth, he took me on like a second honeymoon to Mexico. And that was my first time going anywhere. And you didn't even need a passport back then. Just the birth certificate. And while we were there I, I call it like a spiritual experience. But just because it was like this connection with humanity where I'm sitting there surrounded by Mexican people and I'm like, wow, you know, like humanity, we're all connected. We're all the same. I want my kids to have this experience. And so that was a pivotal moment because we literally went back to the all inclusive resort and I was like, great, let's move to Mexico.

And he was just like, okay, let's do it. And we made that decision. Now we knew I had to have a baby. So we went back and had the baby, and we started preparing and selling everything. And packing up our stuff. And in the meantime, we're convinced by some friends to move to Costa Rica instead. Okay. And then once she was, she was three months old, and now she's the 18 year old that's in Serbia right now. We drove from Utah to Costa Rica and that's like, that was our initiation. Like that was our baptism by fire.

It was great. But you said the same thing when you're like, yep, there was a pinto tender. Is it this trip? Is this Mexico trip or is it something else?

So that that was like the the catalyst to really make it happen? Before that it was just books and ideas because there's a famous quote says, you know, mind, once expanded, can never return to its former dimensions. And in her reading she read those books and then she introduced those ideas and I started toying with it and I just, I couldn't let go of them and I was, I was afraid I was like how am I going to provide and what's it like. And do they even have diapers in Costa Rica? Is there a paved roads like, I don't even know. And so there was all these unknowns, but the ideas just wouldn't go. And once, once a possibility was kind of like, we've got to pull on that string and see what happens to that. We can design our unique family life.

I come at it almost from the opposite direction, particularly when I'm working with clients, because I the quote that, that you just quoted, it's it's almost the opposite, which is the your brain can't work on things it can't imagine. So like, you know, you guys aren't currently working on a novel about kids who and their adolescents get whisked away to a wizard school and they play a sport that never existed, and they, you know, there's an old guy who, like, kind of wanders around a castle and he's big and hairy and like, but J.K. Rowling and I started imagining this thing and then started working on it. Right. And so it's like we need, I think, the thing that my clients run into most often when they come in and pain is that they can't imagine being happy, they can't imagine being restored, they can't imagine being healthy. And so it sounds like you can't.

They can't see it. They can't visualize it.

Yeah. Until they do. And it sounds like when you started to you couldn't not.

Write.

Like you're like, like what would it be like for us to be a happy, adventurous, you know, joyous family? And then all of a sudden you couldn't avoid working on that. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah.

So many lessons, so many lessons. Do you have 1 or 2 that are like hip pocket. I'm interested in particularly about how you weathered the things that were hard.

Well, as he was talking, you know, I thought of another story that was a turning point because when we did that, we embarked on it and it was hard, especially because it was kind of in those years when like blogging was brand new, we were barely on Facebook, like, we didn't even have a smartphone when we started traveling. And so we were we had this vague idea of like working online because it was brand new, but it still wasn't like there wasn't a lot of possibilities.

It wasn't really viable. Right.

And so we actually reached a super low point when I was pregnant with our sixth and like dead broke, dead, dead broke, like we literally had nothing like we.

All we had. Where are you?

We were in Nicaragua.

Okay? We'd had all these, like, little streams of income and it was working and it was working well, but it.

Was, it was getting us by.

And they all dried up simultaneously. It was like this moment the universe was just like.

And then we literally spent, like our last Cordoba in Nicaragua, and we're like, we literally have nothing. And it was this point where, like, we turn to each other and we're like, we're crazy. What are we doing? We have six kids. Like, we can't do this. We need to be responsible. We need to do the right things. We need to just go back and get jobs and like, give up on this crazy dream. And so we kind of decided to do that. The only thing we had was this truck that we'd been overlanding with. We'd started in Alaska and we're like, let's just sell the truck, buy tickets back. We'll move in with your mom. Because what else are we going to do? And so he called his mom to ask her, can we move in with our five kids and my pregnant wife? You know, she said, hell, no.

Yeah.

And that that was it. Like that saved us. We were like, okay, we just have to figure it out. Then, like, we have no other option. We can't go back because nobody's.

Coming to save us.

Nobody's coming to save us. And so it was almost like this was the rock bottom. We just have to figure it out. And like, literally from there, it's just gone a pill because we realized there was no other option. We just had to make it work.

So and through it all though, like one big takeaway for me is through it all, through the ups and downs. Like our marriage was good, our relationship with our kids were good, they're super healthy and we just kept focusing on that. Like, those are the most important things. Those are the best. So when things were great, when things were hard, we're unknown places. When whatever's going on, it's like now the things that matter most, we keep those in a great stay, a great condition, and we can get through anything together.

Yeah, that was definitely something that kept us going because. And I don't even know where I heard this, but I remember hearing one time this story about, well, if everyone took all their troubles and challenges in the world and put them into a pile, you would end up picking the one, the same ones you have. And I remember that. Well, yeah, that's true. Like, yeah, we're struggling financially. We're trying to figure this out, but I'd still pick that if I had to because the marriage is good. The kids are good. Like our health. We're healthy. And so I always just felt like, okay, it's that part's hard. But I'd still pick that. We just have to make, you know, we just have to figure that part out. And so having that was definitely, comforting. I guess throughout it all.

Yeah. You're kind of coming back to it's almost like I want to like, have your, your sound bites on on like, just like, you know how, like when you're doing a radio show and they press a button and it's like a fart sound or something, and it's like, or like a womp womp. I need like the. And then when it was hard, we decided to focus on the most important thing I tell people all the time, you know, you have that choice every time. If you're in an argument and the most important thing is winning, then focus on that and you can win the argument like you can. If the most important thing is figuring out how this argument affects us financially, focus on that and then you'll come up with a spending decision. But the most important thing is to stay connected to each other.

You'll you'll ebb and flow. You'll in and out. You'll kind of come in and go, oh, is it? Get a little tense. I should back out now or. Oh, this is you know, maybe we shouldn't focus on the money thing right this minute, you know, because I can see that it's stressful or I can see that you're hurting. And, it sounds like you figured out that dance.

Yeah. What? What to focus on. Actually, let me share a quick story. I started doing some jujitsu. I love martial arts, and I decided, oh.

My goodness, this thing is, this is like, this is the season of jujitsu on marriage therapy radio right now. It's come up in the last four interviews, so I can't wait. I can't wait to hear what you got. The last episode or two episodes ago is some guy who's like, super triple black belt, you know, five straight, dangerous person. So.

It's so cool, fun, the total. Like, I don't even know White Bell. I'm still at a leather belt, but I went in and and I was going, this was years ago when we first married, and I was really fit. I was really strong. And and the instructor was about 50 pounds lighter than me. In my head, I'm like, this is really unfair. Like, I'm going to squish this guy. Well, yeah, he just worked absolute, of course, of course, every time. And finally, in exasperation, like, oh, like you're just killing me. How are you doing this? And he said, hey, where the head goes, the body follows. Okay. Now, I mean, that was mind blowing for jiu jitsu, but for life, it's even better.

Okay. What you focus on, you feel what you focus on. You find like where you focus goes, the energy flows, right? Like where you take your drive and desire, your sight, your vision. That's what you end up creating in perpetuating. So just like you were saying, it's it is one of the most powerful, important principles like get clear about what you're looking at. What are your targets? What's your aim? Where are you?

What do you say to people? How do you what do you say to people who lead with their feelings? Like I can't, I can't think that because I don't feel that way or I can't like my like, how do you how do you help people? Or how do you imagine helping people think about the opposite?

I think that like, I'm a very feeling person and I lead with my feelings. So I think that.

There's and I say feelings aren't.

Facts. And I'm like they are to me.

As I go.

Yeah. Well, I think it's a great balance.

Good balance, because and that's kind of where I'm going. Like feeling is not a bad thing. But we do have to, I think, learn to get purity of feeling like we have to learn how to discern and weed out the misleading feelings to the truthful feelings. And sometimes it's just a matter like the misleading feelings are unprocessed emotions or things that we need to work through.

And when we do that, then we get this clarity. So it's almost like it's blocking the runway. And when we learn how to clear that, so so I pay attention to the feelings that come up because they're clues or they're signs of, oh, this is something that's been unaddressed or unresolved or, or some trauma or some block. And when I pay attention to that and then I work on removing it, then I can get back to what, you know, what I call the higher level emotions that then I think can become a real guide to like they really can guide your life, but they have to be, higher level. Like you have to move through the lower level ones and reduce them and process them as much as possible.

How do you do that? How do you, Rachel, do that?

I do it. Luckily, I have a great husband that listens, so that's one way I do it, but I.

Also have to do. He says feelings aren't facts. Then he locks into his feeling.

She's like, well, let me tell you all about my feelings.

And I'll tell them. Sometimes I'm like, they are facts to me.

In all sincerity, though, like listening was a game changer and I was not always a good listener. Yeah. But finally, like after lots of of friction, she.

Was leading the right book.

She's like, I just need you to sit there engaged and just listen. Don't don't try to solve things. Don't try to fix things. Just let me talk. I was like, oh, I can do that. And I became a listener so she could then think and process out loud.

Yeah, because a lot of humans think by talking. Right. And so that, at least for me, is a very helpful tool to be able to talk to him, because it helps me to think and process my thoughts. But another thing I do do is writing. So I'll just I do it not journaling, because journaling is like, oh, you're saving your precious thoughts for the next generation or something. It's not that kind of stuff. It's like I take a scrap piece of paper and I just write out everything I'm thinking and feeling. It's uncensored. It's unfiltered. It's horrible and vulgar as it needs to be. And I just get that out and then I will also. Now I've started using ChatGPT to help in that process where I'm just like, okay, here's here's some of the thoughts I vomited out. Help me make sense of it. So that's been helpful too. And, you know, kind of reduces some of his load responsibility.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I still I still like to turn to him because that can help us bond. But it's also helpful to do that. And then come to him like, okay, here's what I process so far. Tell me what you think about it.

Yeah. What happens to that scrap piece of paper?

I throw it away.

Yeah. Rip it up.

Turn it. And is that part of it for you that that I.

Think it's definitely part of it because the idea is to, like, get rid of that. It's not something you want to keep or hold on to. I'm not like, you know, I'm not saving this. Yeah. It's like I'm eliminating this negativity or this blockage.

I was once coaching a sweet lady who had her marriage had been rough for 27 years, and she had kept journals of all her memories and pain and hurt. For 27 years. She had stacks and stacks of journals. And I was like, man, like you're literally and figuratively holding on to the bitterness. Yeah. You got to let that stuff get out. So that's kind of the principle there. The idea.

Yeah. You hinted at it but you, when you said it, I wanted to ask, like you said when I learned to listen. How did you learn to listen? Was reading the race books or maybe it was getting, you know, instructed by Rachel. But when you think about, like, me as a man, the way I made this transition, how do you describe it?

Yeah, it's so it was it's a very specific skill set. But some of that came from reading. Most of it came from her specifically saying, well, no, I don't want you, because I was like, fine, I'll listen. Cross my arms, sit here. I'm like, oh, here we go. Right. That's not listening. We hear, you know, men, you know, laying on their bed with a pillow over their heads, like, okay, go. I'll listen to you now or just disengage. She's like, no, I want you to look at me. And then she's like, I actually want me to hold hold my hand and sit next to me while I cry or process and maybe engage. I don't want to say anything unless I ask you and just kind of be, you know, acknowledging that you're right there. So she was giving me and this took time to get to clear that. That is like she was getting specific skills. I was like, I can do that.

But but the truth is, I got that from reading books because before then, this is why we love reading things and discussing that. It like brings this validation. Like I didn't know before if that was just me and I was coming up with these weird requirements of like, this is what I want from you. But when it was validated in a book like men are from Mars and women are from Venus, you know, something like that, then I'm like, oh, okay, yes, yes, that's exactly what I want. And so then it was easy for me to say, hey, remember we read in that book like, that's what I want you to do because that works for me. So yeah, you know.

Yeah. I don't know if you if you think about it this way, but I sure do with my clients. It's like sometimes you just literally have to invite somebody to use a different part of their brain. And, like, I appreciate that there's a part of your brain that wants to judge this and even solve it for me. I need you to turn that part off and turn on the part that says, oh, that's interesting information. I'm just going to take that in and like, not do anything with it, right?

Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah.

I think, you know, for me and maybe for many women, it's the listening part is a sort of validation of like I can understand why you feel that way. You're not crazy. You know, it's it's kind of like I want to check in here of, like, I'm venting my feelings. Am I normal for having feelings type thing, you know? And so to me, that's part of the listening rather than the solving. It's like, okay, I just need a check here. Like I can go solve some of these problems and I'll get your help on others. But first I need to know, am I normal? Am I a human, am.

I or do you see me? Do you hear me? You do acknowledge me.

You empathize.

See what I'm going through here? Exactly right. It's so powerful.

What, what Greg, have you needed like as you, you know, as you've come to appreciating kind of I don't know Rachel is able to say I needed to, I needed him to learn how to do this. Did you, is there a reverse. Is there another story where you needed her to learn how to do that?

Yeah. More sex. Okay, that was like because it was it was a big day. I'm like, man, I just I want to have sex every day. Yeah. And and she's like, I could go months to time all touched out and all that stuff. And and so working through that understanding is super powerful.

How did you do it? How did you navigate that conflict?

Well, and it comes back to reading again. I remember when I was pregnant with my seventh. And of course, you know, this is natural. I, I was pregnant, I was hormonal, it was our seventh child. And I just remember thinking, you know, at that time I could go the rest of my life without sex and I would be totally fine. Like, why? Why do you have this? Why are you making this additional demand on me? And because I regularly turn to books and research and looking things up, you know, we'd had a disagreement about it again another night, and I thought, that's it, I'm going to get on. I'm going to prove my husband wrong, that he needs less sex.

Right. And of course, what I found was the opposite. It was like, no, I need to have more sex. That's the solution, because more connection is better than less connection. So then I that started a whole journey of me reading more about it and setting all these books, realizing that to me, I see the intimacy is like the circle where I bring this emotion, the the emotional connection, the talking, the, you know, having him listen to me connecting that way. And he brings the physical connection. As long as we keep that circle going, like we're good, we're connected very deeply. But we have to have both sides of the circle, because if we only have one side, then it's like a flat tire basically.

So yeah yeah yeah yeah. Okay. But this goes this I love that you're saying this because it goes back to the question I actually have about thinking and feeling because, because if I said to women in particular, no, no, no, no, you just need to have more sex. Like this is the thing. Like, and they're like, I don't feel like it or I don't want or, but like, how do you encourage or is it this just a circle thing like, but how do you how did how did you navigate through kind of the part of you that was emotionally like maybe not all that interested versus then your brain saying, and still I'm going to do this. Like what? How do you speak to maybe women in particular about making that transition?

I remember once we, we lead couples trips and we led a trip to Thailand and this kind of came up and the the wife was saying like, well, I just don't feel like it, like I'm exhausted. I'm all these things on and on. And I said, how would you feel if he came home and said that to you when you said, I need to talk or I want to talk to you? And her face just like dropped like, well, that was that would be terrible. That would suck, you know? And so for me, I began to understand it from that perspective. If I need to talk to Greg and I use need intentionally because to me it feels like this need like I have to talk to you, I have to process this, I have to make understanding of this. And I came to him and he's like, I'm tired, I'm busy. I've been talking all day.

People. People already talk to me today.

You know, like that hurts. That's painful. And so I started to see it that way. That for him, that's what sex was like. And so, yeah, even if I don't feel like it or I'm touched out or I'm tired, I make the investment because I want the outcomes, I want the connection, and I want him to reciprocate it when I need it. Right. It's this give and take relationship. And so that really helped me with the whole process of just beginning to see it from a different perspective. And to connect it to my own experience as well. You know, there's a lot of things we don't want to do, but we do them because they're good for us exercising, eating healthy like whatever it is, we do that because we want the outcomes, not necessarily because we always feel like doing it. And to me, sex is just that way. No.

That was it makes it sound like it's I.

Know it's like a duty, not a duty to.

Sex because that's not fun, right? Yeah. I don't enjoy duties. Yeah, yeah. So it was the first.

Shift in the mindset of like, no, I want the outcome. So I'm going to willingly engage. Now, of course, once I do that I mean I enjoy it. It's amazing. It's wonderful. But I have to it's like we have to overcome the inertia of taking that first step of like, yeah, I'm going to do it because I want the results.

Yeah. That's cool. I mean, it's it's a obviously it's a, it's a delicate one because you don't want to be like, but I like I like just the idea of that. There's just a reciprocity that is about how do I get what I want, and strictly like, how do I give him what he wants, or how do I give them what they want? It's more like I want intimacy. And part of that part of the puzzle is physical intimacy or sexual intimacy. And thankfully, also it's emotional intimacy. And if we create a virtuous cycle, then we both get what we want.

Exactly. And we're both more willing and happy and fulfilled. And so I'm thinking about how to meet her needs and really connect with her. And she's thinking about how to meet my needs and care for me. And if it's awesome.

Well, and the other thing I began to understand that was so important for me is some women, I think, and because this was me, have this idea that we want our husband to love and cherish and and cuddle and connect with us without it being sexual. Right. And, you know, it's like we're we're friends and there's no sex. And when I realized because he would explain to me, he's like, the more I love you, the more I touch you, the more I see, like, the more I want you. And so I'm like, okay, well, wait, I want you to want me, and I want you to be attracted to me, and I want you to notice me, and I want you to pursue me.

So I realized it was, like, almost delusional for me to think I could have that without it always leading to sex. Right? Like, It's. You can't pick up one end of the stick without picking up the other. So once I realized that, I'm like, okay, well, then that means I just need to be more sexual, right? I just need to be more open to that because it's directly connected. Because the alternative is I have a husband who ignores me. He doesn't pay attention to me. He doesn't fulfill my needs because I like that men do. That is like a, survival strategy. They're like, well, I can't look at you and I can't touch you because I want to have sex with you and you don't want that. So I'm just going to, like, shut off and ignore you. And then the women complain because he doesn't give them any attention. So it's like you have to have they're connected. You have to have both.

There's an author, like a literary person in me who wants you to tie it all up in a bow and, make it make sense within the context of your philosophy about adventure. Can you do that? Can you do that? Is it is all of this that you're describing about your emotional and sexual intimacy journey somehow also connected to your commitment to seeing the world and living different lifetimes? I mean, how does that work? Or do you know.

And I think if we saw, like our family as a, as a wheel, like a wheel of life, 100%, it's one of the spokes because that that sense of adventure and risk and novelty and memories like it adds like so much power and excitement to life, to every part of who we are and in our relationship and what we're doing it like. It gives a spark and this fuel. So yeah, it's definitely connected. And now, now that our kids are older, Rachel, I do an annual honeymoon. So yeah, a 10 to 14 day trip every year to some exotic, awesome place.

Everybody that's listening to that, it's like, well, what?

Yeah. You do what? It's, you know, it's I remember the mom was like, wait, why did we just have one honeymoon? Like, that's the dumbest idea for me for a long time. Was honeymoon this all the time? But then we take like, 2 or 3 day trips. We just got back from the UK and did it again. And so now we're actually on a rhythm. We're like, it's probably 3 or 4 times a year that the two of us just get away and we go somewhere special. And and that brings back spark and romance and passion, fascination and and discovery. Yeah. All special memories and connection. So yeah, it totally fits in to how we want to do life.

Yeah. What did you say at the top though? Like something about, new worlds or every like, like seeing something that that expanded your imagination going to traveling or whatever. I mean, it's it sounds like it's that it's like, as you maintain this sense of wonder about the world, it keeps you in a mindset of wonder about the relationship.

Yes.

Well, and like I think of it in a way, as the hero's journey. When you take a trip, it is literally like a hero's journey because you're going into the unknown. It's terrifying. You have all these experiences. You have the the low points of the the trip or the adventure. You know, that's what makes it a real adventure is when you actually have obstacles, you know, and then you come out transformed.

You're literally a new person with every experience you have and every adventure you go on because it changes who you are. But it's it's almost like you can take that same spirit of adventure and risk and, and going into the unknown, into every aspect of your life, your marriage, like so. It's almost like this part of yourself is developed that that is willing to engage in embracing the unknown and moving into something that's unfamiliar and being transformed in the process so that you continue to progress and grow and deepen your relationship along the way. So yeah, it's definitely this hero's journey.

I heard you say you're writing books. I heard you say that you have you're coaching. If people are interested in learning more about you, guys are hanging out with you. What's how do they do that? Is there book available? Are you do you have a how do people learn more about what you guys are up to?

My book just got to the printers. So so excited for me.

Tell me about it.

The formidable family man. And I just wanted to share, like, what I wish I had known earlier and the the core principles and practices that helped me as a husband and a father, a provider and a protector. And that just is this short book. I was like, I want to just get it down to its essence. Like, what's in there that really helps a man be the very best version of himself. Okay, so I finally got that there. The audiobooks out, ebooks out, and now just going to the printer. So that is now available. It's it's super exciting. It's been a long time.

Everywhere. Like can I find it easily or do I do.

How do I how do not everywhere yet but it's it's on the move there. So it's my website is formidable family. Mankoff. So it's the first place so can start. Yes. All right.

Cool. And then we also do a podcast together. It's the extraordinary family life podcast. And then our website is extraordinary family life.com.

There you go. Yeah. Cool. Well, it's been really cool talking to you. And again I, I'm playing a lot with my clients around this idea of imagination and that kind of expanding opportunity and options. And so it's really interesting and, and lovely to hear about, ways that you guys are doing that. So thank you so, so much for coming on mayor CB radio. And yeah, we'll point people in your direction and see if they can stay a part of your adventure.

Thank you, thank you.