Infertility, Faith, and Deliberate Spontaneity: A Marriage in Progress

Trying to both get in the frame. There we go.

I can see you plenty. Like if I pin your frame. Like you don't have to sit that you have a, like, a whole. Okay? Like we can.

Spread out.

Of this, right? Yeah. Like this right out there. Yeah.

Okay, good. Because we're.

Yeah.

We can't see much of us.

If you, if you go to the like my face and you hit the pin, that looks like an actual pin. It'll make me big and it'll make you smile. And you can.

See. Oh, look at that. Okay.

Oh, beautiful. Now I see all of this stuff that's hanging out on my side.

Yeah.

All right. Hey. Well, thanks for joining me. I am in the middle of a little bit of a, like a re revamp of marriage therapy radio, which I think one of you reached out to, Laura and I and said, hey, we'd love to talk to you. I thought it was really cute, your little system, that you have to kind of go. This is what I want to do with you. But I am, Laura left. Laura decided that she wanted to be a full time mom, so she's, like, doing other things. So that is all good. There's no. People were like, oh, did you guys break up? Nope. She just as she ran out of her, her energy on it.

Yeah. And so I'm in a little bit of a format shift, trying to talk to actual couples about actual things in their actual life. And, it's easiest to find people who are reaching out to me. But that's the conversation I'm interested in having. And I know that you guys have or that you're promoting a particular kind of, service or offering around infertility. If that's right. And I want to I want you to be able to talk about that, but I'm much more interested in just like your actual story and how that goes. And then if we take that on, that's great. So does that sound like it'll work for you?

Yep.

Absolutely.

Loretta. Right. Okay. Well, then where are you guys? Where are you located?

We're we're in Tampa. Tampa, Florida.

Right on. So it's 910, 11, 12 noon. So I'll say yes. Afternoon.

Yes. You're over on the West Coast.

I'm in Seattle, so I have, we have about, an inch and a half of snow on the ground, which will grind Seattle to a halt. So, I mean, everything. The kids are not in school, and, but, you know, it's not. I grew up in the mountains of Virginia, and so an inch and a half of snow is like just Wednesday.

Yeah. I'm surprised Seattle doesn't have, like, processes in place.

Like, like one plow, two plows, maybe. I mean, it's just snow is it's change. So I've been here for 20 years. It's changed a lot. And I do think I'm old enough now to actually see the effects of, like, how climate is changing. Like, I just can I can actually witness it with my bare eyes and eyes. Is that a thing? Which is odd because it's definitely, you know, there's more erratic weather all over the place, but it's, I can definitely see it here in Seattle, but you would think we have about an additional plow by now, but I don't I don't think we have.

Yeah, but.

Anyway, tell me about you guys. You're in Tampa, and who are you? Just give me. Give us a quick CliffsNotes on, on Brenna. And that's Edmunds. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. So, a little bit about us. We have been married for a little over nine years. We met in Georgia. We met while I was doing my residency in psychology, and I am from Miami, Florida. So I came up to Georgia for my residency, and he was in Virginia? No, he was in Vermont. And he came down to Georgia for the military. So we kind of came from two ends of the East Coast, met in Georgia. Fell in love. And that kind of just started our love story.

Yeah. So we met in, Bible study. So, we were we ended up sitting next to each other, and, I thought she was very pretty, so I started flirting a little bit. We had a lot of, conversation after that, and we actually stayed behind, in the, in the church for about an hour and a half until they kicked us out and were like, go on a date already. So then we decided, you know what?

We did.

Like the first your first interaction you, like, lingered for an hour and a half.

Yeah. So we just had a good conversation at that point. And then from there we, we decided to go out on a date. We had some ice cream, and then we elevated to a nice dinner out at, Bocci Grill. From there, we actually decided to just, be friends for about six months. But we still kept our interactions, going and after that, I asked her to go out with me, and, she said yes.

Right. How old were you at this point? You guys met when you're in your 20s and your.

Yeah, late 20s, 26.

27.

627. Yeah.

So sort of latter half your brains are fully formed. And you.

Yes.

You did you did you have relationships before. Did like did you had you dated other people?

Yep. And I had actually been married and divorced before as well. Okay. So I had I had experienced the ups and downs of. Yeah, of that.

And, not I haven't been I wasn't in any like, really long term serious relationships. At that time, I was more focused on school and going through graduate school, and all of that. I didn't really have tons of time for a long term, relationship. So by the time I met him, I had already finished all of the hard work of school, and now I was just kind of time to to settle everything down.

Yeah, yeah. So effectively, Edmund's your kind of your first long term relationship.

Yeah. So the first my first marriage was about five years.

Sorry I asked that question wrong. Let me just for a second, effectively, Edmund, is your first long term relationship. Is that right?

Yes. Romantic relationship. And that's kind of what I wanted it to to be. I whenever I was thinking about, marriage, I looked at dating as the precursor to marriage. And so I wouldn't date anybody if I didn't really feel like I wanted to marry them. And the way that I knew that was just by having friendships with them. If I didn't really like you and what you did during friendships and how you acted with other people and your family and your friends, I thought, that's not going to get any better.

So that's actually the question I was asking. So when you are first getting to know Edmund, how do you know what are the clues or cues that you know, that this guy is different than the ones that hadn't passed muster earlier on?

Yeah. Good question. So the way that I knew that he was different was the way that he, he spoke and the way that he interacted with me and with everybody. So he wasn't just treating me completely different while he was treating me special and different, which made me feel nice. He was still kind, respectful, generous, courteous. He was still all of those things at a base level to everyone, and his mom, his, his friends, and even people that we had just met. He was still kind, and you could tell that it wasn't a show. He was genuinely, genuinely kind. He genuinely wanted to do these things for other people. And so that's what made me think, oh, you're a little different because you're not putting on such a big facade.

Yeah, well, and the opposite is a red flag, too, right? Where, where you meet somebody and they're like, so wonderful. And you, you can't believe how nice they are. And then they, they mistreat a waiter, a waiter or something. And yeah, you're kind of like, what is going on there like that. Yes. And let's times we ignore those red flags because, because they are so wonderful to us, you know. And so that's cool that you had at least that, that your barometer on there.

Yeah. Well, I remember having that with a friend where I thought they were so nice and they were being respectful and exactly what you said. They they were so rude to a waitress, to the point where I thought I don't even think I know you. That is so odd. And when I pointed it out, they double down on their frustration with it. And I thought, I don't even know if I want to be a friend anymore. And I'm pretty sure at that point I was not as close with them anymore because it just kind of revealed where their heart was in all things.

Yeah. And then I'd been. You'd been married before. What do you know about how a marriage ends.

Or it feels like a death. It, For, for me, I didn't think that we had gone that far apart to the point of divorce. But, but at the end, she actually came up to me, said, I don't love you anymore. And then we decided on a divorce from there. And it's just heartbreaking. It's heart wrenching. Thankfully, we didn't have any kids, so that wasn't, an issue, but it's, It definitely. I entered a mourning period after that. And, thankfully, I was able to find some good counseling to get over it. And from there, I was able to get stronger and become a better person and a better man and learn from those mistakes. And really, I think that helped prepare myself for a good marriage, a good relationship with Brenna. And I think that, learning better communication skills, through that, because that was one of the problems. I just wasn't communicating properly, learning how to,

Figure out how to share interests, figure out how to, stand up, for myself and for, my spouse figuring out how to, just learn how to be a good team and work together and everything rather than, see, having an issue and seeing each other on either end of it. You need to view each other as together, and tackle that problem together, even if you disagree on it, you need to figure out how to compromise and come together on how to, overcome the obstacles that are in front of you.

So those are some of the biggest things that I learned from, my previous marriage and, and the failure of that and how we've been able to be so successful in ours, even though we've had a lot of struggles, even though we've had, struggles of infertility and trying to overcome that, that has brought a lot of stress, but we've figured out how to, really come together and really how to talk to each other and share how they're feeling, make each other feel safe in our conversations rather than be, concerned or scared about sharing how they're feeling and possibly being berated or put down, because that's how we feel. And it's been really nice because I never had that before. But now where I feel safe sharing my true feelings and it's been it's been very freeing. And I think that's that's made me a better man and a better husband. She's an excellent wife.

Are you sitting and, you're sitting in the church and you see this pretty girl and you're like, hey, I want to talk to you. We talk for like an hour and a half. Then, they're like, you guys got to go. It's closing time here, right? And then, and then you kind of go back and forth around, whether or not you're dating or whether or not you're friends and you get back into it, how do you give yourself permission to kind of reenter the dating? Not dating, but like the marriage mentality, how do you how do you do that given your given your failure? I'll just borrow your word. I don't necessarily think the idea of a marriage is a failure, but, how do you do that to your for yourself?

Well, I, I never took marriage off the table after the divorce. It's just, I, I realized it just wasn't the right person, and, we conducted ourselves wrong within the marriage to actually make it work. So, after that, I had always been looking for, my next wife and my my final wife. And, so I always had that mindset to, find someone that I wanted to connect with forever. And, as I was looking out, Brenna just stood out from amongst everybody, because of how she carried herself, how she presented herself. She dressed well, and to me, that was nice, because I wanted someone that, knew how to take care of themselves, knew how to, style themselves in a way that they showed that they cared about themselves and that they had, some, self security and, had had a lot of their life figured out so that we could really have a good starting point, to move forward.

So I hadn't, I hadn't really been looking hardcore for, a wife when I saw Brenna. I was just kind of lightly looking. But when I did see her, it really, it sparked something in my soul. Well, it's just I was just ready to start pursuing her, and go after her. And then we had, some long conversations after our last, to our second date, where I opened up to her about, my history and, trying to let her know who I was, because this is after, I think, two weeks of knowing each other, and I'm like, I don't want to waste time.

This is who I am. Do you like me? So, we just we really opened up to each other and, tried to start off, with a lot of honesty in our relationship as a good foundation, and working to, ensure that we can go forward without any big surprises. And we can just get to know all the all the little quirks going forward rather than trying to find all the skeletons or being surprised by some of the skeletons.

Yeah, right. I'm right, I do. You still, do you guys still have talks for, like, an hour and a half?

We do? Yep.

Oh, right.

Yeah. Anytime that we feel like, maybe the other person hasn't conducted themselves. Well, we'll try and bring that up in a loving way. Or if we realize that we've been doing something wrong, we'll try and share our heart and, apologize and, ask the other person maybe what we. What they think we can do better, in those situations and make them feel more loved. How we can, and if we do actually disagree on a way forward, we'll try and figure out a proper compromise. If she thinks I may have spoken too harshly, but I felt like it was, more of an emergency situation where I had to, speak in a harsh tone to get something across. We'll have that conversation.

I'll realize I can tone it down a little bit. And, she'll also realize that that's more of a cue to just listen up more. At that moment when I'm trying to convey something. But we both have to make that compromise and be more self-aware. In that moment.

But, I heard you mentioned a little bit earlier that you part of your story is, there's a struggle with infertility. You want to talk about that for a little bit?

Yeah. So, when we first got married, we we really wanted to prioritize us and prioritize our relationship. And, you know, making sure that we were good and making sure that we would get a house and that we would get a nice little nest egg. And so we thought we would pause all of that. And everybody that I spoke to, no one really had any good suggestions on how to do that. So we did birth control and I had a really bad reaction to it, but we just persevered through that. And about two years doing that for about two years, we decided, now it's time to start having a family. Yeah, yeah. And then once we started trying to have a family, we didn't really think anything of it. We took my my, my, my mindset was, well, let the chips fall where they may.

I don't really know where I got that phrase from what I thought. You know what, let it be what it is and we're not going to try that hard. And then after 6 to 12 months of that, I thought, gosh, I thought this was going to be so much easier. I know when we were younger, they always told you, you can get pregnant like that, so be careful. And they almost put you on edge. Like if you can get pregnant every day of the month, it's absolutely crazy. And then when you get older and you start learning about it, you realize there's only one day of the month you can get pregnant and that's it. And so that's that started making me think that there's something wrong.

And so I started going to the doctor and we went to the doctor and running some tests. And two years after running some tests to the doctor, basically said to us, I, I still don't know what's wrong with you. So they gave me the diagnosis of unexplained infertility. They, they did give me some medication for thyroid. The doctor said sometimes the thyroid is the problem and yours is a little off. So we're just going to give you medication. See what that does? It did nothing. And so we did a couple of things and none of them seemed to work. And then after two years, the doctor recommended a couple of options that were invasive, expensive, and seemed really out of line for an answer of, I don't know.

And so that kind of really got us to the point where we didn't know what to do because we were heartbroken at that point. We were now married for four years, and we are we struggled for two years to have a baby. And and we were in a place of work where at that time we were working really hard on our jobs and we were just so confused as to what was going on. And so I remember that being a pivotal moment of we had to figure out what was going on because it was just so much stress. And then it just kind of evolved from there where we, we realized we needed to focus on doing this together as a team because we weren't really doing that. Yeah, the doctors were mostly focused on me and they said, he's fine.

So a lot of it was about me. So I felt overwhelmed doing it by myself. And so we had, again, one of those hard conversations where we found ourselves sitting at the dining room table saying, what are we going to do? This is just all too much. And rather than allow it to break our relationship, we said we're going to focus on our relationship and then try to do this together. And that's what happened. We started exploring other options. We started exploring functional health and started exploring, holistic approaches. And now we're with a homeopathic provider.

So you said I think I it's been now seven years since that journey started.

Yeah, it's been seven years since we started. And there's been a lot of ups and downs during that fertility during the early on in the trying to figure out what was going on and two things that I credit to our longevity with staying hopeful and staying resilient to this is our relationship with the Lord and our relationship with each other. We really had to prioritize what the Lord said over what the doctors were saying, and we also had to prioritize what we wanted in our family and our relationship over what they said. And so if we were uncomfortable with something, we discussed it with one another. And if one of us didn't want to proceed. So, for example, with IVF and II, those are common things that the doctors recommend.

And, we weren't comfortable doing that. And so if we're not comfortable doing that, then we have to we had to find other avenues, and we had to work harder together as a team and trust in the Lord. More to now navigate where to go next. And that's what led us to what we're doing now. We're with a homeopathic provider, and we've been with them for a little over a year, and we've seen a lot of great progress to the point where I'm no longer on thyroid medication. I'm no longer experiencing the same symptoms that I was before. And a lot of my symptoms that I was experiencing before have gone away. And our overall health has improved. And so all of those things wouldn't have happened had we not gone down this road.

Okay. That's a lot. I'm so sorry that you guys have not been able to have more success, except for the fact, of course, that you've drawn nearer to one another. That's a success of its own sort.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have two daughters. They're 22 and 18. At this point, we were not able to get we had infertility challenges with both of them. So I understand that that that moment a little bit. It wasn't seven years, but, you know, it's painful every single month to have this experience of hope that gets dashed and then, you know, how do you pick it back up again. And I appreciate that. You have a, a strong sense of your own faith. How how do you articulate that being sustaining for you? Like, what does it mean for you to hear from the Lord or to, to you know, rely on your faith as part of this journey that includes a bunch of grace? I'm interested to know how you how you explain it to yourselves, to each other, to the world. Who is listening to this podcast. Like how do you make sense of that for.

Yeah, it's it's really challenging. And just first off, I think when we were praying early on when we first got married and we were praying early on, we heard his voice louder, telling us the direction to go and that he did tell us we will have children. And he did tell us that, he was going to make a way and that that we will eventually get there. And so I think having that promise for us kind of helped us hold on to hope. And so each month over the last seven years has had its own challenges. And some months are harder than others, especially going through fertility treatments.

But I think as we go through each step, we talk about it with one another and as we're praying we feel whether or not we're comfortable with that step and if we're comfortable with that step, that's how I believe that we feel like the Lord is leading us that direction. And if we are uncomfortable with that step for one reason or another, we have a conversation about why we're uncomfortable. And then we decide, is it is it us that doesn't want to do it? Or is it something that we feel like the Lord doesn't want us to go that way because we never want to do anything out of fear? I don't want to do this procedure because I'm afraid that something else won't happen or I don't want to, just listen to the doctor and not ask questions because I'm afraid of something.

So we didn't want fear to drive us. We wanted it to be faith. And, a combination of the faith and then the wisdom that God was giving us. And so every time we got to a point where we had to have a crossroad of what we were going to do, we prayed together and made sure that both of us were comfortable, and that we both felt peace about it. God would give us peace about what to do next. And I think because we had that good, communication, we started working well as a team. We started putting better boundaries with other people where we weren't listening to other people, and their opinions about what they wanted. For us. That was.

An. Yeah.

We had to just figure out what we want. And I think that really helped us hear from the Lord a lot better than if we just listened to what everybody else was saying.

Okay, now I have a totally separate question because I'm just fascinated. I ask this a lot when people speak the way that you do. But what does God's voice sound like?

It can.

Deep, booming voice. Is it the voice.

Is of your.

Own voice? Is it the voice of wind in the in the air? Like when you talked about, we heard him say, like, what is it? What is the sound of it?

It's almost like intuition. Kind of like, Yeah. Just, a feeling, an unction, a guidance, one way or another. And the more you get to know God's character, the more you know, who he is and what he wants. What he said before. The more your, that feeling is in line with it, the more clearly it is. Sometimes it's, it's, a very stark, feeling like. No, you should not do that. Turn away now and you can either listen to it or, ignore it, but, for me, that that's what it is. It's it's a strong feeling, a strong unction to, heard going one way or.

You are going to have children.

Yes. And so I got that in a couple of different ways. So I, I'm a very big dreamer, and so I dream a lot. And because of the field that I'm in, I can separate the difference between dreams that are my subconscious popping up as well as it's just something that I watched the day before. But.

Leftover TV shows.

TV shows. Yeah. So I was praying for God to reveal it to us, to speak to us. And I also then I was also praying again, this was early on praying for dreams like, give me a dream, give me signs, give me something. And so I really I explicitly got, dreams. I got dreams about it. Another time when I was praying, and just praying and really seeking God's voice and saying, tell me where we're going. It's again, something like Edmond said, I felt it in my spirit. And sometimes when you, you kind of feel like this, this unction that says, this is what I want you to do.

And so sometimes when I get that it's, it might sound like thoughts. And then I'll start journaling what I feel like it is, and then through the journaling, I feel like he's speaking to me. And then that's another way where he showed me that I was going to have that. And then through confirmation, through other people who have said, God spoke to me. And the only reason why we listened to those other people was because he said exactly the same thing, word for word. That was in my dream. Yeah. And in my journal.

Yeah. I was going to ask you, like, do you? That's amazing. How do you, Seven years? Surely you've run up against, hope dashed or hope deferred?

Hope fatigue.

Yeah. How do you keep from getting angry? How do you keep from getting despairing? Or maybe you have like, maybe you have had those moments. And what are those like for you?

Awful.

Yeah.

So we have had those moments you want to share?

Yes. I mean, sometimes we just have to let it run its course. And then while we're in that moment, we are there to encourage each other, there to help guide each other through it, as well as listen to the Lord and lean on him, for a little bit of relief, but, like, when I'm going through that, that anger phase or that whole fatigue phase, Brenna will come alongside me and just, encourage me, remind to remind me of the victories that we've had. Tell me about, the positive things that have happened. And, as well as other stories about other people that have gone through long term, infertility challenges and ended up on the other end with the baby. So, I think that when, when we go through that stuff, we just come together and we are there to support each other.

We're there to encourage each other and try and, help pull the other one out. But also realizing that it is important to acknowledge the emotion that you're going through and not just shove it down because, I've, I've always been a big shoveler. I'm a, I'm a big old box with all of my emotions right in here.

So the ones that come out.

When I get out. Yeah. When I get push past that, that threshold of of hope for like.

Do you like, throw plates or do you, do you scream?

No. Because then we need to buy new plates I know right?

Thankfully, I've never been like, a big outburst person. I usually, personally, I, I retract, I'm very much an introvert, so, I recharge by being alone, and I just retract. I I'll let her know that I just need more time alone right now. And, she allows that she'll give it to me, and I. I appreciate that so much. But I'll pull back into some of my hobbies and, or just read or something and, spend more time by myself to, work through my own thoughts, through my own feelings, and when I'm ready to share and, lean on her, she's there for me, and I can just, open up to her. So that's that's how I deal with it. And thankfully, it doesn't come out in big outbursts. I think sometimes I've been a little snarky with Brenna. But, she she helps me catch that, and, thankfully helps me correct that, too.

Yeah. And for me, with those really big moment, emotions, I've had a lot of those, especially, like you said, for for a woman, it repeats every 30 to 40 days, however long the cycle is. And you're working on it. So we have this very big flashing light that says you're starting over again.

Yeah, well.

You have it first before he even knows. Like, so you've had a day. Yeah, an hour or whatever where you're sitting there with this information that you now have to assimilate and share.

Yeah. Yes. And I do, different, different moments. And depending on what I'm doing, I'll have the different depths of grief and sadness and anger and exactly what he said. The thing that we've learned that helps the most, and this is something that I even tell all my clients, is that you need to go through it. You need to recognize what it is, validate it, and allow yourself to process and go through it and not, just bury it. So he says he buries it for the moment so that he can get through some things, and then he allows himself to process it. And so at some point in time, allow yourself to process those emotions. And the way that I do that through the grief and the sadness is sometimes, I'll take either a couple of hours or depending on how deep it is, I might take a mental health day to just allow my body to rest, my mind to rest.

I will journal. I will do some yoga. I'll make sure that's the day that I'm drinking plenty of water and I'm eating, and I'm allowing any emotions that I'm feeling to just come out and allow myself to to cry or allow myself to get upset. And, and I think because I, we know that there is an end at some point in time. I think that's what allows us to view them as phases of grief and that this is a cycle and that we when we fall, there is a way to pull ourselves back up, to be able to continue to move forward.

Yeah. And I'm also very blessed with Brenda being as a psychologist that she can just walk me through the process.

Process. I want to ask you a question you don't have to answer. And if you don't want to answer it in the public forum, we can edit it out, but, I, I'm interested in what sex is like, you know, because I always say, and this was our experience, that, you know, who hates sex is people who are, like, trying to make sure they have right at the right time. And I'm obviating. And that's the thing. And you got to go and, you know, are you ready? And how do you navigate that? I mean, how do you make that work for the two of you given again, you've got sort of seven years of experience. Yeah. So yeah, I'm interested in to hear what that how that works for you or how that how you psychologically and emotionally or, setting yourself up for that.

Yeah. If we're not if we're not deliberate about not making it a chore, it definitely becomes a chore. And, we've had to, work to be more spontaneous. Even during those times, like, we know that we have to do it at this time. We'll try and do it in a more, more romantic way. That gets us, both excited about the event. Rather than just, like, dreading it again. Like, okay, let's just let's just go do it, you know? So, it's been a more deliberate spontaneity in a way, where we try and still.

Spontaneity.

Is spice it up. In a way.

It's it's it's evolved into that. Right? Like, it's evolved into that because early on, it was really about that when we started learning about it. So the first year when we were trying to figure it out, I didn't even know what that what that window was. So we were messing it up all the time. And then as we learned it, then it became the regimented thing. And then we realized that sucks because this is not fun. This is just so stressful. I don't even want to do anything anymore because it it ends up being on the schedule. And so the way that it's evolved to now is we realized the way that he said this, the spontaneity is we know what the window is. And then that's just the kind of idea of, okay, here's a window.

It has to happen sometime during this time. So let's figure out what to do during this time. And then we also kind of take the pressure off. Some months we've take the pressure off of it doesn't have to be that day. And then other times we have moments of if it is that day, how are we feeling at that moment? We kind of have the question of if we're not feeling it in that moment, do we want to just do it quickie because it needs to happen because it's not going to happen unless you do it? Or do we want to just say we did the best we could this month? We're not feeling well. It is what it is.

And so I think we really take it month to month. How are we feeling? And the other thing that helps is we don't just have sex on our ovulation time. We make sure you have it throughout the month before, after to make sure that it's not just about the baby during the ovulation window. Most of the time it is. But outside of that, we do things to make sure that.

You maintain that proper.

Mirror. Yeah, you don't just have it that, three days of the month because then that's not fun. So making sure that it's more than just about that.

Yeah. I mean, I spend time with clients all the time who have different versions of struggling or navigating their sex life. And one of the questions that we have to ask a lot is like, what is it for when? What's it for? So maybe during the ovulation window it's for it's for pregnancy, it's for implantation. It's for, you know, but maybe outside of that it's for nurturing or reconnection or pleasure. Yeah. Like like so but I think a lot of times people hop into bed and they don't they don't, they don't agree what it's for.

Yeah, yeah.

That's a good point.

Is it for him. Is it for her. Is it for exercise? Is it for pleasure? Is it orgasm? Is it for pregnancy? Like if the two of you aren't clear about that together. So I like that you are able to differentiate sort of go hey, in this window. It's for this. And outside of this window, we still need to prioritize it so that it, it's not strictly about, you know, truly. I mean, an other person. Yeah, another some other person you're trying to get pregnant is. Yeah. That's harder to be present for each other. Yeah. I want to ask another question on sort of on behalf of people who are thinking through infertility challenges, which is, given your confidence that you're that you're to have children, that you've heard this, from the Lord and, and how you've made sense of that deal.

Where does adoption fit into your consideration process? Like do you have you navigated those waters? Have you have you scratched off the list, or is it something that you've put in parallel, like, what what you how does that work for you or how do you how do you think about that?

Well, we don't really feel like it's the right path for us right now. We still feel led to, work to have a biological child. Yeah. But it's not completely off the list. Like, if we, if we're led in that direction, then we'll we'll definitely pursue it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's also partly because we're still as we've been going down this path, we've noticed that there are, health issues that have been blocking fertility. And as we recognize that there are health issues, then the priority shifts a bit because now it's I actually want to get healthy. It's not just about bringing a baby into the world. It's I want to feel healthy. I want to not be cold all the time. I want to not be fatigue all the time. I want to be really healthy because at the end of the day, that's not the end goal is to have a baby. It's to have a family that's flourishing. So I don't want to push my body, and he doesn't want to push his body to the point of we got we finally got to the end.

And then you just realized, great, now you just started another chapter and we're exhausted. And so we're also we're also prioritizing, our health at the same time. And so I think that's partly why it's, it's not off the table, but it's just to the side for right now.

Yeah.

No, but, so I actually really appreciate the notion of, like, priority one is to be healthy to get. Yeah. And then to let whatever happens inside of your world be subject to that health versus, you know, we're, we're we're we're chasing the outcomes so much that it comes at a cost that we don't want to pay. You know, your body's is to our to our wallets, to our.

Spirit.

Whatever it is. So, Man, that's really cool. So what's next for you guys? What do you what what's on there? What's, kind of what's or. Yeah, in your process or you just. Well, it's obviously a fun time. So we're going to hang up and go to like when you think about the next thing on your, on your horizon, what is it.

So I'm actually super excited with the next thing in our health today or just our life in general.

Our life. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well with our life, our our next steps is, we're really excited about sharing this journey with other people. And so over the last, I don't know, six months or so, we started opening up and sharing more with people, probably a little bit longer than that. And we really felt led to share some of the success that we've had with our relationship with other people. And so we started speaking more. We started offering, monthly webinars, and we started really working to help other couples who are going through this journey, going through infertility to prioritize their marriage, because that's something that is completely within their control. They can they can't control the outcome of, having a baby. They can do a lot of steps.

But one thing that we saw on our journey while we've been talking to other couples is many couples would neglect their relationship. And we've spoken to a couple of couples who ended up separating and getting divorced because of the pressure was so much. Yeah. And we realized this is something that needs to be addressed. We need to be able to to encourage these couples.

And we felt led in that direction to encourage these couples to start focusing on your relationship, start communicating better, and start working on that foundation so that when you have your family, you're not going to have to fix all of the things that you broke trying to have the family. And so that's what we're really excited about for next steps for us as we are continuing to work on growing our family and improve our health, we can also come alongside other couples, to help encourage them to to kind of borrow our, resilience that our excitement and share that there is, a path forward that you don't have to struggle that whole time.

Right. So if I'm listening and I'm interested in participating with you in some of that, journey, sharing that journey, how do I, how do I find you? What is the what's the next step for me.

Yeah. So you can check out our website Encourage and Empower wellness.com. Or you can also and.

Empower wellness.com.

Oh yeah I'm so sorry. I speak rather quickly sometimes I am for Miami encourage and empower wellness.com or on Instagram at Doctor Brenda Squires. And then if you are professional and you also want to reach out to me, I also consult with with nurse practitioners and doctors and psychiatrists and counselors. If you want to reach out to me and see how I can help your clients. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. At Brenna Squires.

Very cool. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you reached out to me to set up your radio. And I'm glad that you guys came and just were willing to share a little bit of your personal story. It's been really cool. I've been doing these interviews for about a month now, and I learned something new every time. And I'm going to I'm going to spend time thinking about deliberate spontaneity.

We got a catchphrase that I know right?

Well, trademark.

It. There's some value in it. Right? Like, I think people say all the time, oh, I want it to be spontaneous. And I'm like, okay, but it's not. So what are you going to do? You got to create some intention around it. So yeah. I applaud that for you guys.

Thank you.

I think we do that a lot in a couple of different things. We'll do like a spontaneous and, a trip where we're saying we're going to go, to another city for the weekend, and that's the deliberate. And then whatever happens, happens. So we'll stop wherever we want and do things, whatever we want.

So, yeah.

Okay. Well, thanks again for spending time with us. And, yeah, I'm looking forward to sharing your story with, with our with our folks.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

My pleasure.

Okay. Don't hang up.